Header graphic for print
China Law Blog China Law for Business

China Business. It Helps To Know The Culture: Responses to Comments

Posted in China Business

A week or so ago, Jason Patent wrote a three part series on incorporating knowledge of Chinese culture to better your business in and with China. I asked Jason to write these posts after having listening to Jason give the best talk I have ever seen/heard on the cultural differences between China and the United States as those differences relate to business. Jason’s first post was entitled (by me), “China Business. It Helps To Know The Culture,” his second post was entitled (again by me), “China Business. It Helps To Know The Culture. Part II. Dealing With The Ethical Gray Zone,” and his third post was entitled (yes, by me), “China Business. It Helps To Know The Culture. Part III. Stereotypes As Excess Baggage.

All three posts generated a substantial number of excellent comments, both pro and con. Many of the comments raised issues to which I thought it would be helpful for Jason to respond. So I asked Jason to write another post addressing the comments and he graciously agreed to do so and here it is.

Audiences are often polarized by the claims I make about differences between Chinese and Western mindsets. It’s been no different here, in the comments left on my three guest posts. Most everyone falls into one of two camps: “This is great,” or “This is bunk.” The “bunk” camp has roughly four critiques, which I’ll address here. 

Critique #1: (a) This abstract mindset stuff can’t possibly account for the dirty details of everyday business — (b) which makes it useless. 

On (1a), absolutely. Mindset is one piece of a huge set of puzzles and challenges that have to be addressed in running a successful business anywhere in the world. Three brief blog posts are simply by necessity going to be somewhat abstract and vague. (And woe to the company that hires a consultant to write blog posts and do nothing else!) Any serious consulting engagement has to go way beyond mindset and into the organizational and operational nitty-gritty that real businesspeople face every day. 

As for (1b), for the best chance at success you need both the abstract and the specific. To the extent that the day-to-day work of running a company can be informed by high-level principles like mindset, it is likely to be more effective. Unless one thinks the findings themselves are inaccurate, which is a separate conversation.

Critique #2: (a) Current political and social circumstances can explain all the relevant mindset differences. (b) Societies change over time (a form of evidence for (2a)).

I can’t do justice here to the volumes of statistically validated social science research that demonstrate the surprising stability of mindsets over time. For cultural issues generally, I’ll refer you to the work of Geert Hofstede and his team. For U.S. and China, pick up any of the 19th-Century works by U.S. missionaries in China (my favorite is Smith’s Chinese Characteristics. Or, better yet, read Lin Yutang’s 1935 classic My Country and My People, and see how well it’s held up over time.

Critique #3: Stereotypes may have some business use.

There’s a terminological distinction in the field of intercultural communication between stereotyping and generalizing. Generalizing is the act of making statements about a group of people, realizing that there is variation within any population. Stereotyping is taking a perceived characteristic of an individual and claiming, on the basis of this, that all people “like this person” share this characteristic (and probably other negative characteristics too). I simply don’t see the business value in this latter act. Generalizing, yes; stereotyping, no.

Critique #4: Don’t be too easy on the Chinese: they could in fact be out to mess you up.

True. No businessperson should act without a duly critical stance toward people with possibly competing interests. What I find disheartening is the certainty with which Westerners often attribute certain behaviors to this or that “Chinese characteristic,” which then often leads to broader, more negative generalizations, and ultimately to an unproductive, and ill-deserved, distrust.

There is no one best window through which to view the Chinese, or anyone. But the more possible windows we allow ourselves, the richer our set of cognitive tools for solving complex problems — intercultural and other.

  • Twofish

    I happen to think that Geert Hofstede is utter bunk. You can go to the Wikipedia article on Hofstede to read up on peer reviewed work. Also the statistics he uses are total non-sense. I should also point out that Hofstede had some popularity back in the day, when you had American companies go overseas for the very first time, so no one was in a position to challenge him, but we are in a globalized world, and I don’t know of any major corporation or HR that takes anything he says seriously now, simply because there are enough people that will complain if you claim that the sky is pink.
    One thing about Hofstede is that he assumes that there are fixed cultural characteristics, but does no work to actually test those assumptions. Most of his data is taking from surveys of IBM-1970. That’s nice but I don’t work in IBM-1970.
    As far as my reading list, one of the people I’d bring up is Edward Said’s Orientalism that described how colonialism enforced notions of an eternal orient. “Discovering History in China” by Cohen, basically tosses those myths into dust.
    It’s really interesting to read up on 19th century descriptions of China, but the year is 2011. If I gave you a description of how people behaved in the Atlanta, Georgia in 1850 (or even 1950) you’d find it interesting, but you’d hardly use it as a guide for how people in Atlanta behave today.
    Finally, even if you have a culture, you have to remember that part of effective management involves changing cultures. If you assume that people are a certain way or have a certain mindset because they are Chinese, American, or Martian, then this provides no real guidelines for figuring out how to get a culture to change.
    This matters for a lot of foreign businesses. My company (which is an multi-national firm that hires large numbers of Chinese) gets business precisely because we do things differently from local firms. If we did things the same way as local firms, the government just wouldn’t let us do business in China. We do things a certain way. We hire people (Chinese, Americans, Martians, Saturnians we don’t care if you are yellow, white, or blue) that do things our way, and we have never found it a problem hiring Chinese or (anyone else). In fact, the Chinese people we hire often like working for our firm because we do things different. Nothing we do is particularly special, and if local firms get jealous and want to copy us, well that’s why the government let’s us in…..
    Patent: What I find disheartening is the certainty with which Westerners often attribute certain behaviors to this or that “Chinese characteristic,” which then often leads to broader, more negative generalizations, and ultimately to an unproductive, and ill-deserved, distrust.
    But by using a framework that assumes that there is an unchanging cultural mindset. I’m telling you that sometimes when someone is crooked, it’s because they are just a bad person. Also, sometimes when you ask someone why they have a low opinion of group X, you’ll find that it’s in fact because everyone that they’ve met in group X have been rather nasty and dishonest. If you are an Irish cop and the only contact you have with Chinese are with people you see in jail, you are going to develop some rather negative opinions about Chinese, and vice versa. But none of this has much to do with being Irish or Chinese, and asking someone to rethink their opinions is ineffective, because it turns out that they really do have good personal reasons for those stereotypes.
    The story that I hear a lot involves a SME that is doing business overseas for the first time, they go to China, and someone there robs them blind. This tends to happen because if you are new and unfamiliar, you are just fresh meat for sharks. If you to into a crowd bus terminal in any major city and shout “I’ve got money” I can almost guarantee that you will run into a pickpocket.
    Since the only Chinese they have really dealt with are crooks, they naturally assume that Chinese are crooks. Trying to get people to “see things from the Chinese point of view” is rather unproductive, because the Chinese people that they dealt with are in fact, crooks. Now if you want said person not to have negative impressions of Chinese people, then you aren’t going to it by lectures, you just have to expose them to Chinese people that aren’t crooks.
    It works the other way. I tend to have a very high opinion of Chinese people, because most Chinese people I know aren’t crooks. My parents weren’t crooks. Most of my relatives aren’t crooks. My kids will get into a lot of trouble with me if they show any signs of turning into a crook. I also tend to have very high opinions of people from other cultures. You might argue that I think highly of Chinese, Mexicans, Arabs, or Germans, because I surround myself with honest decent Chinese, Mexicans, Arabs, or Germans, and the people that are dishonest, I stay away from. Yeah…. And so?

  • Jerome Cole

    Patent seems to be mischaracterizing some criticism and ignoring the rest. Not a good a performance. I am unpersuaded.

  • http://www.shigroupchina.com Jim

    Yes, Americans loved the word freedom 200 years ago and today still do, so what Jason is saying has some merit. But I also have some agreement with twofish. From a business standpoint, you need to find people who are on the same page with you regardless of what country you are in. I am guessing that both Jason and twofish would agree.
    San Walton once responded to a query on how he gets his associates to be friendly by saying that he hires people who are friendly. I so agree. Americans do have some long term tendencies, but you can find friendly Americans. And Walmart in China would also search out friendly people and not just takle average people and randomly. Built to Last companies hire people who have certain values regardless of what country they work in. Those are the values. Now, in America, I can find lots of people who are passionate about freedom, but in China I would probably find fewer but if I needed that in my business then I would go find it even if it was harder to find. And I would find a trusted guide to help me get there in a new culture. And naturally, due diligence is worth the effort throughout.

  • anon this time

    Jason is right. You either love what he does or you hate it. You either believe cultural interpretations are relevant for business or you don’t. I generally do. I have been living in and doing business with China for over 20 years and I think one of my chief assets is that I know the culture. Knowing the culture doesn’t mean I will always be right since everyone is different, but let me tell you that it sure helps and anyone who says otherwise almost certainly has less experience than I do.

  • Mark Z.

    Dr. Patent is full of hot air.

  • Cory Mathers

    How can anyone even question the idea that it is better to know the culture of the place in which you will be doing business?