China Visas. I'm Getting Deja Vu Olympic Feelings, Part IV. New Reports Of Visa Raids.

How about criticizing China for sending police who only speak Chinese to round up foreigners in a paddy wagon? Why not just spot check their documents right then? I've seen this sort of crap before. The level of English among Chinese civil servants is pathetic, and Korean? HA! Even though most foreigners aren't from English speaking countries... though that's a different topic.

The level of respect you receive as a foreigner in China is in direct proportion to where the authorities visibly "perceive" you to be from.

Enforcing domestic law is one thing. How you do it is quite another. I'm not just talking about the info in your post, but from things I've seen over the years. Honestly, despite my strong, long term ties to China, at times I am very, very glad to no longer be there. I always sum it up this way: in North America and Europe, the absolute best one can hope for is to be treated like a full citizen might be. This certainly won't be a perfect situation, but for immigrants to... the U.S., say, it's your best scenario. To be a foreigner here wouldn't often be so pretty, I feel.

In China, the absolute worst thing for immigrants and foreigners is to be treated like a full Chinese citizen. And more and more, from what I've seen and from what friends and colleagues tell me, that is what is happening.

When the gravy is flowing, it's all good, but the day is coming when the powers that be will no longer feel the need to show a deference - and let's face it, foreigners in China have definitely been shown a much greater degree of respect in the last 8 years or so.

Or at least, certain foreigners might not be on the 外友 list any longer.

No problem with enforcing the laws on tourist visas. But why, again, do we need to stop giving business visas ahead of the 60th anniversary of the founding of this incarnation of the country?

What bothers me is how they accept any documentation, no matter how dodgy, for a F visa. Then, they turn around and start kicking people out. I mean, heck, if you don't want these people here, don't grant any visas. Don't grant them short-term visas and then be surprised when they overstay because their country is a crapsack.

I've been in China nearly eleven years and have never been randomly asked to show my passport. Hotels, yes, and twice in police stations in very rural Qinghai, but never in Beijing or Tianjin.

Concerning the Shanghai Expo mascots: I figure this is just the excuse that was needed to legitimately argue for NOT having a US exhibition.

Does anyone really believe that the 60th anniversary is the real reason for these shakedowns? There is another anniversary coming much sooner and there has already been a mass disharmony in Nanjing.

But China should enforce its immigration laws, especially as it climbs the ladder. Even 10 years ago there were foreigners working full time on expired student, tourist and business visas. Ten years ago I also remember hearing complaints from Chinese about how "all the shabby foreigners come to China". Not all expats are educated professionals, there are many hippies, bohemians, mischievous trust fund kids, tax evaders, sex criminals and violent offenders on the run from their home countries. Some of them took jobs that locals could have just because of white skin and english, some continued their illegal behaviors and others test the waters to see what kinds of crimes they can get away with.
Nanjing prison has a considerable population of foreigners.

So in general, the luster of foreigners, even white foreigners, is wearing off and China is really feelings its oats as the EU and US flounder during this recession.

Dan, just a couple of questions for you because even though I live in an EU country, there are still some nagging troubles obtaining visas -- depending on where in the world you're from while living in the Czech Republic.

Allow me to just explain how the visa situation works in this country, in the interests of obtaining comparative information for China.

I ask because a) I'm genuinely interested, b) I might have a need for this at some very near stage for China, and c) I want to see how similar things are in countries that at one stage, at least, had more in common than in opposition, being members of the same glorious socialist international.

At least here, residence of any term must be "for a reason." An "alien" can't just slum around because one feels like it (I suppose that's the case in any nation, but the prevailing opinion might be because this is the European Union that the requirement is somehow waived). Needless to say, that most locals are lazy and unaspiring and permitted to begin their drinking day at 10am is not in any way a factor.

In the old days circa. 1995 and the immediate post-Velvet Revolutionary period, visa vigilance on the part of the Foreigners Police was slack and overly lax. Estimates claim that at one stage anywhere between 15,000-30,000 resident AMERICAN so-called "layabouts and freeloaders" were here (primarily) in Prague lapping up the copious pilsner beer, the rent-controlled apartments, the dirt cheap vittles, and fast easy women.

Czech visas can be temporary, short-term, long-term, permanent, refugee/asylum, business, student, etc.

Before the advent of the EU here in May 2004 as part of Phase 1 of the EU's "Eastern Partnership" (Phase Two was in January of 2007), developing-nation non-EU nationals like Mongolia, Ukraine, and Senegal were roped together in the same category with the USA, Canada, and Australia. That meant, all of us -- both "developed" and "developing" citizens -- had to secure our visas over at crumbling functional structure built during the 1970s out in some Communist sector of Prague where one was compelled to queue up at around 1am for a 7:30am start!

The crush at the door was ludicrous. Lots of elbowing, pickpocketing, shoving, shouting, spitting, punching, and a whole lotta "mafiya"-type shenanigans concerning the distribution of the chits for the actual Visa Officer interviews, who at the time were demeaning, rude, and for the most part highly inane. Knocks against them included zero English language skills (nor French, nor German, nor any other Western European language, including Russian), and this for a newly-minted "democracy" boasting of Membership in the EU (this was happening as late as 2006!). If you didn't speak the vernacular and have a Czech translator accompanying you, or if one scintilla of your visa application was wonky (egs. penny-value approval stamps, drawing outside the box on the actual form, fishy signatures, or if their computer systems were down), they dismissed you and you would have to return another day and go through these motions from the start. Obtaining something as simple as a student visa was once a three- to four-day ordeal.

Not so any longer...

In mid-2006 or thereabouts, we had the first series of visa regime reforms. The Foreigners Police was shunted out to a modern brand-spanking new facility a little deeper inside the former blue-collar part of town, but at least the queueing nonsense was now orderly and controlled by a cordon of responsible and burly Czech police in near-full riot gear (the intimidating presence helped quell some of the rowdies). One still had to arrive at 2am, but at least the movement of people moved like clockwork.

To be sure, both the Ukrainian and Russian mafiyas still "employ" people to camp out in front of the new building to secure front-of-the-line service for the formers' premium clients and visa-seekers, so getting first in the line for plebes is a near impossibility unless you've got the Czech equivalent of "guanxi."

I remember waiting there all night once only to see either of two sorts of phenomena occur right before official opening: 1) VIPs waltz right on over to the front of the scrum using the empty "fast lane," complete with a wink and a nod to the (more scrawny) police officers guarding the entrance 2) friends keeping placeholders for their buddies who decided to sleep in like normal people, away beyond the watchful gaze of the (bear-like) police.

Eventually, you'd get your little number tag -- provided you passed the initial triage and all of your paperwork was in order -- and then depending on which number in the line you had you still had to wait a series of hours to meet the real, decision-making Visa Officer. If you had a high number, you could conceivably wait the entire day only to have to come back the next day because it was already quitting time (yes, and begin the entire process anew). Furthermore, if a Visa Officer again suspected something was amiss about your application, s/he could send you away to rectify the matter, and, yes, I think by now you're familiar with the rest of the sad tale.

Heaven Forfend nature was calling during this time. Your number might be called while you were relieving yourself and -- but of course! -- you'd lose your slot, only to have to wait until the end of that day's series of numbers or if a compassionate Visa Officer took pity on you.

Naturally, you didn't want to go to use the WC in the main vestibule...you don't want to know what was swimming around in that flushless bowl, and I'll spare you the sob story.

Which leads to the final series of reforms...

...in which there is now a Most Favoured Nation-type visa regime in the Czech Republic. Now we have 3 distinct tracks:

1) EU Nationals, for which the visa process is a cinch (EU citizenship does not confer automatic pan-EU residency, despite what most Europeans are lead to believe. In fact most Western Europeans don't even go through with this stage, unless they're working in the Czech Republic). There is still the requirement for Czech-residing EU nationals to register their residency.

2) Chosen nations (or as we say in Czech, "vybrané zemi,") such as US, Canada, NZ, Australia, Mexico, Hong Kong (not PRC), Costa Rica, Israel, Brazil, etc.), for which there's no longer the exterior (read: colder than a witch's...) line. Now you head straight up to the 4th-floor of a centrally-heated building, bypassing the one-time most annoying stage in the entire ordeal. Not to mention the fact that nationals from said above nations are not that common in the Czech lands, at least as residents, so today the process flows like water.

3) The Hoi-Polloi. Egs. Central African Republic, Cameroon, Nigeria, PRC, Cuba, Vietnam (which is the third largest minority group in the Czech Republic!), Serbia, Ukraine, Russia).

Last time I had my visa renewed, it was a cinch.

I picked a pre-Holiday day during the coldest depths of winter, showed up an hour before opening with all my ducks in a row, and within 20 minutes I presented my documents and was in and out like a bolt of lightening. No fuss, no muss. I was shocked, considering I'd done it both ways and only knew how I once used to have to gird myself up for the tough grind at the old digs. Not only that, now some Czech Visa Officers speak English, which naturally makes the rigamarole tremendously easier for many language-challenged applicants. This indeed is the way it should be for:

** an EU nation.

** a country with a population size of only 10.5 million = a half-drop in the global pool with a language no one uses except themselves. While this is indeed politically-incorrect, it's the truth. Czechs need to learn this and they are...slowly (this is not the former USSR!)

** a country which desperately craves FDI, and should do everything in its power to simplify the visa process, not erect barriers to entry in a "survival of the fittest" regime where only the strong types who can navigate the near-opaque rudiments of the Czech language and culture are welcome to stay.

The reason I went through this laborious explanation (thank you for your understanding!) is because I'm getting the sinking feeling that it's not at all like this in China.

The Chinese visa regime has the following structural dilemmas from what I'm reading in these dispatches (and Dan please forgive me if you've covered this elsewhere, since I'm new to your blog):

** English language skills at the PSB/Aliens Police and Interior Ministry are nonexistent, and understandably so -- 1.3 billion inhabitants? Um, I think so...

** there is no convenient facility/building. You've got to basically go on a wild goose chase to find your relevant bureau depending on which quarter of the big city you live in.

** there is no legal transparency, so the law as promulgated is not the law as applied/enforced.

** there is also arbitrariness in the application of the law -- a visa which should be extended for a year is extended for three, as Dan's late update shows.

The feeling I have is that this is a lot worse in Beijing/Shanghai/Shenzen/Hangzhou, etc. than it is in Europe, even accounting for the sometimes shoddy post-Communist environments.

Is there anything else I haven't covered?

Joe, residents of Shanghai have a nice, shiny, easy to access visa office in Pudong that is staffed by plenty of professional and courteous staff that speak English. The waiting area is a bit dull, but I've seen worse in the USA.

@ Joe:

Believe it or not, there are large numbers of foreigners who enter to work on inappropriate visas, or continue to work on expired visas.

"I heard that China is going to crack down on foreigners (particularly US academics in their 60s and 70s teaching US Constitutional law in China) illegally co-habiting with young Chinese girls."

That would in fact be a very weird thing to hear. I hope it is just a joke.

I've always been under the impression that the Nanjing prison is the final destination for all foreigners convicted of typical crimes. Of course there are lots of rumors about some missionaries in the same types of prisons as FLG members and pro-splittist types.

Excellent post. After many years in China, sometimes on a Z-visa if I were working here, often on an L-visa for family visit I never had any problem renewing whatever visa I had. Till now that is. Trying to renew my L-visa in Jeddah I was told to fly back to my home country and get one there. Not a very eco-friendly solution. I got a letter from one of the largest Chinese companies who is my contractor in the Middle East as I fly back and forth for meetings and I was given a 6 month F-visa for 15 days per stay. However 15 days per stay is effectively about one week as it given you zero flexibility in scheduling your flights so completely useless. Had to change this in Beijing so with a letter of the Government I went to the PSB office and asked for a one year, 60 days stay per visit F visa. The women asked for the original business license of the party that issued the letter which is a bit difficult as it is the Government. Her boss came and started laughing at her explaining that there was no business license and without further delay my application was accepted. However if I look at the past years the PSB is far more precise in registration now than they have ever been. They were pushing me to apply for a D-visa, validity 10 years, as I am married to a Chinese and have property in China but as the rule is that you have to be in China for 9 months a year it just does not work. If it would be 6 months like the US green card I know a lot of foreign businessmen who would qualify for this. In the meanwhile we end op applying for new passports every two years or so as they are full before their expiry dates.