Which China City Is Best for Mordachai?

I do wish I were 25 and with a crisp JD in hand. Unfortunately, I'm a few years behind Mordachai Absalom. However, that would mean I was still 25, working for a study abroad program in Beijing (ostensibly to improve my language skills) and probably spending too much time in Wudaokou.

If it helps the direction of comments, I would really appreciate hearing from people - who are in the business/legal industry - who could provide some guidance on what they look for in potential applicants specific to the China job market. To be more clear, what could a potential job seeker do to be attractive to your company, especially given the global economy?

I hope that is a little less weird.

How about Ningbo? It's definitely underserved as far as foreign lawyers. But definitely not for the weak or easily-discouraged.

You may want to have a look at Hangzhou? :)

I spent a year in Chengdu working for a foreign investment firm and loved it. Good people, good food, good tourism opportunities, low cost of living. I don't know what kind of opportunities there are for foreign lawyers, but I bet there's something if you look hard enough.

As far as opportunities go in second tier cities, I think it would be very tough for a young lawyer to find something worthwhile to ply their trade, especially without a lot of experience. This person would have to be a real self-starter.

I am not sure if a budding lawyer who is not fluent in written and spoken Chinese should venture out to 2nd/3rd tier cities or to China at all at this point. They have no competitive edge whatsoever.

American companies preferred to hire American lawyers in China because they were more predictable and would understand the American company's legal/cultural needs better. Even if the American lawyer may not speak Chinese and may not know Chinese culture and legal system as well as a native, the American lawyer is preferred over a local lawyer.

However, many Chinese law firms are quickly catching up. I know several Chinese nationals who went to top tier US law schools, worked in the US (so they are familiar with US culture, not to mention speak flawless English) and who have since returned to China and joined top Chinese law firms.

To an American company seeking counsel in China, the Chinese returnees are much more desirable than a non-Chinese lawyer. They are a new breed of international lawyers in China who are bilingual, bicultural and bi-legal training.

I think for American lawyers to be competitive in China, they will also need to be bilingual, bicultural and bi-legal training (I've know a few who are exactly that and they have really excelled). Being a foreigner can only get you so far nowadays.

You just need a book of business---clients. You can always get the Chinese to do the work, and they're cheap, much cheaper than hiring foreigners.

Investment/Reward ratio: At least US$100,000 debt (4 years college + 3 years law school + at least 4 years study of Mandarin full time) to compete with a Chinese bloke who's got a one-year LLM from a US law school and who's willing to work for a few thousand Rmb/month.

@WEI,

What are you talking about? Chinese are not always cheap. Things are changing rapidly. Do not underestimate the ability and the ambition of the Chinese. They are seeing the world much clearer now and have a better sense of the worth of their labor.

Sure, there are Chinese who get LLMs from lower tier law schools and probably do not get paid much in China. But there are also Chinese who are graduates of Yale, Berkeley, Stanford law schools and I can assure you that they will not be content with a few thousand RMB a month. I personally know several so I am sure of that fact.

Much depends on "personality".
If Mordachai is the type that wants to create opportunities - rather than operate in a well established market - go west young man.
I agree with Chris: Chengdu is a great city and, away from work, the great outdoors is so close.
Plenty of scope for networking with Chinese and foreign companies/execs/engineers; housing stock is fine; good food and nightlife.
For those who can handle a grittier existence,consider Chongqing. But take it from me, there's not much in the way of recreation; few options for decent western food; hardly anything that can pass for the arts. A gritty city, but the people are great.
If you wear down the shoe leather, get out and about, you can make your mark.
But if you need many creature comforts - or plenty of expat mates - develop business but don't set-up here.
The right people can carve their niche in second tier cities.
Sure, it's important to develop language skills - and this takes time. In the meantime, hire great assistants. There are good people out there.
Also, get your driving licence and buy a car !
But second tier cities are not for the faint hearted. In every expat frequented bar in every Chinese city, you'll find once capable people who've ended up bitter and twisted.

JMS,

Given the nature of the Chinese legal system, quite frankly, I don't see much value in Chinese who've graduate from top tier US law schools. Their English is good. So what? If one can communicate in Chinese, who needs em?! (Here, I'm not assaulting them as human beings. They may be great people, but....) What is the practical value of their English skills and US legal training to clients apart from ordinary communication? Moreover, what practical value is their US legal education to clients? Many times, unfortunately, the role of the Chinese lawyer is to bribe the Chinese official/Chinese judge. Why do you need a top tier US law school graduate, fluent English speaking Chinese lawyer to do this? In fact, any lawyer who'd make bribery payments really should think seriously about what the f...ck he/she is doing with his/her life and the humiliation that he/she is inflicting upon the legal profession in China.

I just don't see much value in Chinese lawyers, apart from, perhaps, their rain-making connections. The Chinese legal system is an approval system. If your project is approved, it's legal. If not, it's not legal. End of story. I'm speaking in broad generalities, of course, but what can you do?

WEI,

I happened to have worked with local Chinese counsel and I can tell you that good Chinese lawyers, especially those who understand the legal framework in the US, the US companies' business needs and who are ethical and hardworking, (i.e. they are good lawyers) are of great value to us.

The ones with JDs from Yale, NYU, Berkeley, are comfortably in the upper middle class in both the US and China. The ones who decide to return to China will not stoop to bribing judges. What is the incentive for them to do this? Their clientele mainly consists of large multinational companies who have to comply with the FCPA.

My point is that a foreign lawyer should not rely on him being a foreigner as the sole or primary selling point. He needs to be a good "Chinese" lawyer first and foremost if he wants to be competitive in China. If the only value of the foreign lawyer is to serve as a middle man, and the foreign lawyer does not speak Chinese, knows little of Chinese law and who basically hires Chinese "consultants" who are the real lawyers and then repackages it, then he has no value. I can find Chinese lawyers who understand American culture just as well and who are bilingual and knows the pitfalls of the Chinese legal system.

I don't know what field you are in but your mentality seems to have stuck in the 1990s and early 2000s. Like everywhere, there are good Chinese lawyers and bad Chinese lawyers. I have certainly witnessed less than ethical behaviors from non-Chinese lawyers trained in supposedly developed countries.

At this day and age, especially given the current financial crisis, I don't think you can generalize anything anymore.

Wei simplifies the issue too much and one wonders exactly what sort of law he's been exposed to. Foreign lawyers in China are de facto "foreign client relation officers". Its domestic lawyers who do the work and are the only ones actually legally qualified or permitted by the Ministry of Justice to do so. Non-Chinese lawyers usually try to inflict other standards / opinions on Chinese law, usually with disasterous results. Mordachai would do well to seek a career in the US, not China, and follow the same route as Dan Harris here.

consider a second tier city, underserved by foreign law firms. Sign up with a Chinese law firms that wants to try to support foreign clients. You can become the link between potential foreign clients and the Chinese law firm in the second tier city (that presumably does not have the talent to reach out to such potential clients).

You may have to be largely self-funded since such a law firm may not pay as much as you would like.

I agree with JMS. Nanjing is a really good choice. I spent there one year at Nanjing University and would say that the City is a perfect mixture, cause you got what you as a foreigner definitely need (try the German bakery, its wonderful) and on the other hand you still life in a really Chinese city.
Apart from this there are many German and other foreign firms to work with, for example Siemens/Bosch. Nanjing as the capital of the prosperous Jiangsu province should give you lots of working opportunities. Still to mention that you have other big cities with potential clients in your neighbourhood, like Suzhou, Wuxi 等等！ So give a try, go to Nanjing!
Apart from this, i agree that for persons who like to travel Chengdu is a good choice…. I might come around ;o)

Sorry, you're all wrong.

It's specious to apply foreign standards to China. It's a case of apples and oranges. The hiring standards applicable to foreign lawyers outside of China do not apply to lawyers working in China. To apply such standards is to play upon the gullible foreigner. It also shows that the foreigners doing the hiring don't understand the Chinese environment, and, thus, default to all that they really know.

The fact is that China does not have a functional court system. It does not. Thus, the room for clever legal reasoning and clever drafting is quite narrow. The unwritten logic of the Chinese government is that they want the foreign investment (this may change if the US dollar collapses). They just want projects to be approved by the Chinese government. Ultimately, they don't really care what the foreign lawyers do in respect of the contracts because any legal protections available in China are ultimately at the whim of the Chinese government.

Incidently, it was reported recently that 2 US law firms got into trouble with the Ministry of Commerce due to bribery of MOC officials. I suspect that this was anti-trust related. Does anyone know the names of these US firms as it wasn't reported in the press? Thanks.

It looks like WEI is the new Nanheyangrouchuan (for those of you who remember his antics); they are both trolls; ignore them.

your experience really helps to gain lot of knowledge on china and cities..

Thanks

Nobody has mentioned Tianjin, or specifically TEDA yet. TEDA is the Tianjin Economic Development Area which I hear the Chinese government is trying to make into the next Pudong.

I've been to Tianjin for 3 summers studying abroad and it is a pleasant place, a bit more relaxed than Beijing but not small with 11 million people. With the new high speed train you can be in Beijing in 27 minutes from downtown Tianjin. TEDA is a 45 minute commuter train from downtown Tianjin, and China's only Toyota factory is found there.

It's a growing place for international business and it might be an interesting place to look into.

Ian