China Law Blog

Koreans don't stop people hitting their girlfriend/boyfriend and family may not just because they rely on their government for such thing. They were trained not to interfere with other people's family affairs too.

Interesting post. I don't entirely agree.

The article’s comparisons with other nations’ charitable giving does not break down the numbers on a per capita basis or a disposable income basis, so I think it’s difficult to draw the conclusion that America is the most generous nation on Earth when it comes to disaster relief. Generous yes. But the most generous. I don't know. The article ends by asserting that the United States is the greatest nation in the world. This strikes me as a nationalistic sentiment, and further raises my suspicions about the article’s reliability. (However, I have known Chinese tour guides who claim that their most generous clients were always Americans, based on their willingness to pay the price asked of them at a market without haggling too much, and based on their tipping).

I heard the following story second hand from a Frenchman who has an obvious bias against Americans. Apparently, a group of young American students from a university in Yunnan, upon hearing of the widespread need for help of all kinds in the earthquake-damaged area of Sichuan, decided to volunteer. They left their university without notifying the school of what they were doing, travelled to Sichuan without setting up a contact first, and without having any expertise in disaster mangement presented themselves as ready to help in any way they could. Upon arriving they were turned away and sent back to their university, which was dismayed by their behavior and has since implemented new policies requiring all students to notify the school if they plan to leave Yunnan for whatever reason.

The Frenchman derided these American students as foolish, and maybe, this being China, the Frenchman was right. But in America, their offer of assistance, despite their lack of any expertise, would have been received gratefully. They would probably have been given some menial but much-needed tasks to do.

As far as willingness to intervene in a public dispute instead of contacting the police, it may be that Americans in rural areas with stronger communities are more likely to do this than those in urban areas. I knew a woman who 40 years ago was stabbed in broad daylight in a park in New Jersey, with several dozen people standing at a bus stop nearby who did nothing to help, even after her attacker had left. She walked away bleeding profusely, found herself on a track behind a high school and lost consciousness. Only then did someone call an ambulance.

Specifically regarding the beating in Korea, domestic disputes or those between lovers are always dangerous, even the police are nervous about getting involved.

Dan,

Good read. The cultural difference your friend is describing is absolutely the "standard" belief in China, and I believe all Confucian-influenced societies.

As far as why private individuals are still stepping out and giving so much... not just donating money, but their time/lives/effort above and beyond what might be called the "norm"... many Chinese believe this is actually the imprint Communism made on the Chinese nation during the Mao era. Not a popular concept in the West perhaps, but that's legitimately how many Chinese feel.

Keep in mind that during the '60s, my parents generation (and Hu Jintao's generation) spent nearly a decade away form home, struggling in hostile environments doing physical labor none of the city kids had been prepared for. Some were forced into it, but many, many volunteered and consider it one of the greatest accomplishments of their lives. And I believe that value set is living on today.

One last comment about US giving and your suggestion that total US donations will come in at the top... I don't want to make this a competition, but I also want to make clear the scale of generosity being shown by the Chinese community world-wide. The United States raised about $3 billion dollars each for the Katrina and 9/11 relief efforts. The world at large raised about $6 billion for the Tsunami relief effort.

Right now, less than two weeks after the earthquake... international and domestic donations for the Chinese earthquake relief effort is already more than $4 billion dollars.

The number of Chinese pulling out their pockets and giving until it hurts is just overwhelming. (In some cases, also generating resentment... all 70 million Communist Party members are being required to donate heavily.)

Great post. I'm truly amazed at the amount of information available about this disaster and that there are so many ways to help and so many people doing so. Very heartening and inspiring.

On a separate topic, I'm a little dubious about conservative talk about self-reliance and disdain for the government. Many will rant until blue in the face (or should that be "red in the face?") about taxes and firearms, but in the same breath they'll expound on the need to legislate against gay marriage, abortion and swear words on TV. Others lament the preponderance of "liberal" judges who supposedly legislate from the bench, only to stack the courts with conservative judges who do the same thing. Most want to continue the "war on drugs;" a costly exercise in government futility if ever there was one. It's the same story with the "war on terror" as mentioned in the article you sited. There is some spectacular cognitive dissonance at work for people to think that extraordinary military expenditures are somehow different from the dread specter of "big government." To be fair, I suppose dogmatic political philosophies of all shades are bereft of rational thought by nature.

I agree Obama isn't perfect, but you may be underestimating the power of the "throw the bums out" mentality in US politics. Did you happen to catch the '06 mid-term elections? Also, McCain? That's the best the right has to offer? Really? I respect his service to his country but that alone does not a president make.

/my apologies for the threadjack.

In reference to your point about Barack Obama, I think that white smalltown america can be overridden.

"Specifically regarding the beating in Korea, domestic disputes or those between lovers are always dangerous, even the police are nervous about getting involved."

It is the duty of the police to get involved in any kind of violent dispute, to not do so is negligence at best, cowardice at worst.

"They were trained not to interfere with other people's family affairs too."

Unfortunately, this is really more a case of using their culture as an excuse not to do the right thing or to do bad things. They do it because they know we will swallow it hook line and sinker, and let them get away with it. It is little wonder Asian culture has so little respect in western countries.

I am surprised to see you link Obama to a post to a post on self-reliance. It seems a stretch. What in his background suggest anything against the idea of self-reliance?

Furthermore, the majority of that article has little to do with self-reliance, it is just a list (san bullet points) of reasons to not vote for Obama.

Never before have I seen a candidate generate so much trepidation and angst before he'd even won his party's nomination. BTW, I (reluctantly) support McCain, and I am a loyal reader of your well-written blog, but I cannot help but wonder why you reference Peru and Kalamazoo... just as it is wrong to blanket all small towners with the bitter label, it is just as wrong (even if a lot more warm and positive) to blanket small-towners as the salt-of-the-earth who know sh*t from shinola. I'm from Chicago and I dare say that solid midwestern working class values don't stop at the county line.

You cannot pooh-pooh one stereotype and welcome another. Well, you can, but it's a bit disingenuous.

Did you hear that one of McCain's chief staffers quit in order to not work against Obama? That's a tacit endorsement, and there are more to come. I wouldn't bet the rent on Hillary, but Obama... charisma is hard to beat, just ask Reagan.

I've found that sweeping generalizations about what ethnic group X will do in situation Y to be highly inaccurate. The other thing that I've found is that differences in urban/rural behaviors tend to be much more different than differences between ethnic groups.

You just can't be self-reliant in New York City the way that you can on a farm in Kansas. In a small town, it's going to take some time for the police to arrive, and it is highly unlikely that the person that is beating up the girlfriend is the son of a highly placed mob boss that will shoot you dead if you intervene. In the big city, the parameters are different.

I do know that you do get a lot of friction between people from southern rural Taiwan and people from Taipei, and from what little I know of Korean politics, I suspect that very similar frictions exist.

The fact that you bring up Obama illustrates quite plainly that the attitudes about "self-reliance" is pretty clearly not a American/Korean split but rather more likely an urban/rural one. Sure no one you know might like Obama, but the fact that he has made it this far suggests that someone does. Big city people do vote.

Another point is that big disasters require some sort of governmental coordination in order for useful things to be done. Without good coordination, then you get a mess like Katrina. The other interesting irony is that for all of the talk of self-reliance, rural counties and states receive a lot more governmental assistance than highly urbanized ones do.

" .. . .will vote for Obama and for why I am going on record as saying he cannot win the general election"

Man, I will seriously stand ten pints of the best bitter going at the swankiest pub in London if he loses - he's got November all locked up as far as I can see. I'm guessing you're entering the post Hillary blues here and knoweth not what you say . . . .

PS - I have to go along with those who point out the difference between the way in which people in rural comunities are willing to intervene and those from the city. In London I walk past things I would never do in the sleepy seaside village of Lancing, West Sussex.

I totally see your point between self-reliance and the form of civil societies. By "civil society" I mean a real deal like the one in the U.S. While found its capital in New York City (by organization scope and quantity), interestingly enough, historians see philathropy America originated from the very first association of smalltowners and mid-west farmers.

Back to China, besides the "Korean bystanders", other things are still missing in its stepping forward. There also stands the biggest government on the earth. And I seriously doubt the policy makers' motivation/capability to adopt any effecitve regulations on China's forming third sector.

In the past two weeks, many tears and hopes went for the victims as well as those who lined up to fill the blood banks throughout the country. This may be the first time in Chinese history that the nation as a whole shows ultimate respect to human lives. Could it be the Enlightenment moment that introduced individual rights and universal humanity as fundamental to China? Let me quote Mrs. Obama's words, sort of - I'm soooooo proud of China for the first time.

Would love to hear more of your insights on this change.

FOARP,

You are on!

thanks for the post. it's obviously drops in the bucket, but I think what's monumental here isn't the outpouring of sympathy and goodwill but the sense of individual agency that people might gain here, even in the face of such an overwhelming natural disaster. In recognizing some responsibility to help, those who contribute to the relief effort are gaining a kind of power that, as you infer, may typically be the government's province. The implications of that for tackling all kinds of other problems are ... well, we'll see, right?

I also wrote something about this at Treehugger:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/05/china_earthquake_grassroots_volunteer.php

I've seen Chinese boyfriends/husbands brutalizing their girlfriends/wives, and sometimes the opposite (gf/wives on the brutalizing side) countless times on the street in China. I've also seen parents brutalizing their children on the street. No one was even calling the cops in any of these cases. People just kinda gathered around and stared.

Right, but when I win (and I do mean when) I expect the best that Seattle has to offer (no, not Starbucks!)

We have a plethora of quality: http://www.brewpubzone.com/States/Washington.html