China Law Blog

I haven't read Hessler's article, but is he suggesting that Peace Corps and various western NGOs working in many non-western, third world countries are "agents of cultural imperialism" too? :-)

Dan, This is more of a thank you than a comment, so you do not have to post this. I have been reading your blog for more than a year and like it very much for its professionalism and fact based entries. I have been living in China for almost 9 years, have a Chinese fiance, and work for a logistics, moving and relocations company. Your blog is the one blog I recommend to every expat that arrives in China. Although living in China is stressful sometimes, as a foreigner it is easy, exciting, and we are able to enjoy more freedoms than Chinese people. Many expats that come to China always ask me (note: I lived in Shanghai for 5 years and am now in a 2nd tier city) about the amount of freedom here because, as they say, "it seems pretty free with no problems" to them. To this response, and proof of the recent "incident" I always tell them that as "foreigners" we have an easier time here than the locals, BUT always remember in the back of your mind that you are a guest, China is still "technically" communist, and if you don't obey the rules, other people will be effected. Apologies for this "long' comment, but I would like to thank you for your post about this latest "story" and thank you for all the past entries that have not only helped me but countless number of others living here.

Very good read indeed. "Free _____" certainly makes better bumper than "I've been to ______ and it's a lot more complicated than you think."

Just follow me, "We Can Do It"! Will the "it" include a dollar exchanges for 40 Euro cents, 3 yuans, or a quarter of 1% of a barrel of oil? My guess is when it's said and done, Obama will make Jimmy Carter look like a great economic president.

Pfeffer,

Read the article.

Cleve,

I am too vain NOT to publish it. Thanks a million. I truly appreciate both your comment and your spreading the good word. Your comment means a lot to me.

JXie,

One of the things I really really want my children to learn is to not jump to conclusions and to recognize that the so-called easy answer is not necessarily the right one. People are always surprised when I tell them that I do not have an opinion on a particular issue because I have not studied it enough.

Bush and Carter are our two worst presidents since WWWII and I am convinced it was because they were so inexperienced. Obama scares me for that very reason.

It seems many westerners take it as a fact that China has no legal claim to _______as its territory. But what makes China’s rule over _______ any less legal than the European diaspora’s rule over Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada, US and Latin American countries? Why are the Chinese _________ whereas the ethnic Europeans benign “settlers”? What makes their occupation of the lands and the destruction of native cultures any different from or any less savage than Chinese _____ over ______? Is it because those countries are democracies? If that’s the case, does it mean before the US abolished segregation we did not have legal claim to US territories since enslaving African Americans and relegating them to the back of the bus were hardly democratic. When I read Johnson v M’Intosh, it dawned on me that territorial disputes at such level are not about what’s right or wrong, it’s about power and force. It is double standard for westerners to examine China ____________ through a moralistic lens but when their own interests are directly involved, it all suddenly becomes a very cold hearted and calculated analysis. How many ethnic Europeans view themselves as _____ who treated the native populations with hideous savageness? It is not surprising that those Chinese volunteers interviewed by Hessler do not feel that way either.

The most experienced US president ever, James Buchanan, was also arguably, the worst US president. But it depends on what one considers experience. Does living abroad, working with the poor, serving as a state legislator, running a masterful campaign to come from nowhere,etc not count as valuable experience? I think it does, and it provides balance, something that Washington wonks don't always have.

I think what's important is judgement, leadership, and intelligence. I'm not at all scared of Obama - I'm excited by the prospect of him being the face of America.

Great article by Hessler, except for his conclusion. What it boils down to I guess is that the people who live in a place should be allowed to live as they please. Hesslers comments about American Indians are true (I'm part Indian) but there is a big difference in 1850 and 2008 - we should all know better by now.

An excellent article and another reason why Peter Hessler is one of the best foreign observers of China in recent memory. Thank you for posting the links, I'm going to recommend the article for my students as well.

And Hillary scares me precisely because she is allegedly too "experienced".

Anyway, thanks very much for the link to Hessler's article!

I wonder though, if Bush (I wasn't alive for Carter) had had more "experience" prior to being President, would that have made him any better? I somehow doubt it.

Dan,

This is very wise. While I'm very concerned about what is going on out west, I'll leave the commenting to others.

With respect to Peter Hessler, both my wife and I read almost everything he writes on China. He has the ability to arrive at pretty solid conclusions based on his keen observation of very common people, deep understanding of them, and at times sensible identification with them.

Maybe it is time to reread River Town (about his teaching experience in Sichuan) and Oracle Bones (kinda like a sequel.)

Peace Corps is no NGO, it's a agency under the State Department

So, to pffefer: You are right, Peace corps is indeed an "agent of cultural imperialism"

A great blog on what's happening in that region:

http://kadfly.blogspot.com/

the parallel with European settler colonies is valid, I think, but remember that ... [there were issues] in all those places until there was meaningful and public dialog, accompanied by genuine attempts from both sides at reconciliation. In many of those cases .... [issues] continue to the present, despite considerable progress -witness aboriginal ... [issues] at Sydney's Olympics. The same will be true in .... [this region we are discussing].

Re jms,
I don't buy the "judge not..." argument. I do not think you can call someone born in a place not their ancestral homeland a "settler", much less a "colonialist", or blame them for the fact that their parents were born there. Do you propose all Americans, Aussies, Argentinians, Chinese Malaysians etc etc move back to their "homelands"? Regardless, I think you can't blame someone for the sins of their parents, a principle which I think is widely accepted worldwide. Finally, I can't vouch for education outside my hometown, but I was not taught that colonization was a good thing. As Jay points out, the west is (mostly) past that now. Even things like Iraq, for example, are far more complicated then people make them seem- very few Americans, certainly very few educated Americans, would support the war in Iraq if they didn't think it could help Iraqis. Many Americans opposed the war from the start. There seems to be no equivalent anti-war, anti-oppression movement in _____- which is not the people's fault.
As for _____, first off, if no one criticized anyone, then everyone would be able to get away with anything. You can't say that the west did bad things, therefore it's equal to China which also does bad things. Probably no one here is responsible for the bad things the west did, or could have stopped them- so how can they be blamed, and told not to judge others?

Look at it this way- should we say nothing on _____ just because we feel we shouldn't judge, because our great-great-great grandfathers did something similar 150 years ago, and then let the _____s suffer? If we ignore the situation, how does that help things?

(As you may guess, I completely disagree with Peter Hessler's conclusion.)

Thank you for the article.

You know, living in China, working in China, and following Chinese rules, it's easy to get used to things, to desensitize oneself to the sheer truth and barbarity of what goes on here. It's great to read articles like this to remind oneself of truth and different perspectives, when everything else is just fake peaches and cream.

Arguably the greatest campaigner in recent history is Boris Yeltsin. He started 1996 with a single-digit approval rating and yet he managed to be reelected. Capability of running a great campaign has very little to do with whether one will become a good leader.

Given that Obama is quite probably the next US president, I had to flip through his books, watch his speeches, and study this man. He is a very caring, honest and decent man, hence my Carter comparison. He doesn't seem to have much faith in free market, not just rhetorically like many democrats do.

Many compare him to JFK and Clinton as all of them are/were young in their first presidential tries. JFK's presidency was too short to be judged, but he was really the end result of not just his lifetime but the lifetimes of 3 generations. Clinton had had presidential aspiration since college age. Over years he and Hillary had developed a trusted inner circle, hence he had no difficulty to assembly a top-notch cabinet quickly including deficit hawk Rubin. He also realized the importance of a good working relationship with the fed chief. He quickly developed a rapport with Greenspan. As to Obama, I simply can't figure out what he will be talking to Bernanke.

Anyway, the more I look into Obama, the more I see a great short setup in USD. Any ridiculous low that you can think of now, in my crystal ball may be too high.

"Bush and Carter are our two worst presidents since WWWII and I am convinced it was because they were so inexperienced. Obama scares me for that very reason."

No, Bush's cabinet is corrupt and self-serving on a level not seen since the 1870s to 1920s.

Don't know about Jimmeh, but basically Bush & Co is trying to hold the mess together as much as possible until Jan 2009, after which the real rot will come to surface and THAT president, even McCain, will get the blame as Bush blazes up a J and the BBQ.

Thank you so much for the timely link to Peter's article. I love his books and articles and this one is really precious given what is currently happening.

As a Daoist libertarian, I have little faith in states and in government abilities to solve societal issues (most govt. initiatives are counterproductive). The problems of the region at issue are yet another example of unintended consequences of well meaning policies, as is the recent predictable consequences of a Fed in the US printing up way too much money to feed the bloated government debt. (read Austrian school economic analysis of boom bust cycles for more).

Thanks again for continuing to post and link to thought inducing material on this excellent blog.

I just ran across another, pretty good article on this issue in the current (March 08) Far Eastern Economic Review, http://www.feer.com/features/2008/march/chinas-tibet-problem

I note that from where I am inside China, almost every reference to this issue (historic or otherwise) is blocked; in recent days our internet has been incredibly slow and unable to access sources ranging from The Economist (journal) to youtube (video site). The response at upper levels seems to be hysteria, and so, unfortunately, I doubt if the more moderate course advocated in the FEER article will be followed.

Thanks for sharing the link to Peter Hessler's insightful piece.

About your pledge to be "careful about the comments": Please be aware that self-c----ship is an insidious trend, creeping into the minds of many people living here in China (or other censorship regimes) — until they begin to see it as acceptable ‘common practice’.

I understand your desire to "keep this blog online in China" (although of course I do not know the exact underlying reasons), but I would like to share the idea that, at the end of the day, for future generations of an ethically more evolved public, self-c----ship (and the c---ing of others that necessarily comes with it) may turn out to *not* be as acceptable a practice as we now blindly assume.