China Law Blog

I don't think its true of every country...I think London would be considered the money and culture (and political) base of the UK. I think the bigger split is between money vs. political cities, like the US split between NYC and DC. In China, there's that obvious split between Shanghai and Beijing. However, I think there's been a blending of things over the years and so these stereotypes that may have had a bit of truth to them in the past are now just stereotypes. Being from the north/northeast (to me, Shanghai's the south), there are those stereotypes about southerners being so completely focused on money and lacking culture. However, I think they are only stereotypes. Sure, the image of Shenzhen is all about money, but there is also a lot of great art and other culture coming out of that city. Even in Beijing, the "cultured" and "political" city, I think you talk to most common Chinese workers and their focus is on the bottom line, making money, trying to survive, and having a "comfortable" life with all the trappings.

The importance of money in Chinese regions have to do with how well off the areas have been historically. Fujian and Guangdong are poor in natural resources and prone to earthquakes and typhoons. Resource accumulations are much more important in these areas then the historically well off areas like Sichun.

Shenzhen Undercover's post is started in Hongkong, the obsession with money in Hongkong is a phenomena with a combination of being in poor south and longest denial to political access. Money became the only measurement of accomplishment. By the way, the political access of Hongkongnese was not denied by Beijing but by London. 100 years of colonizations, London had never allowed Hongkong any political right.

But again, maybe we are looking too much into this. China is a developing country and accumulation of wealth is simply importance in this stage regardless to the cultures on money. We just have to wait to see how the culture factors play out after the incoming levels have raised to a certain point.

I completely disagree with b. cheng's comment.

Having lived in New York City for the past 5 years, I would say that NYC can not be considered just the "money" city in the US. It is the financial capital, but it is also the cultural (fashion, art, literature, architecture, music and film) capital and a solid hub for education as well.

Although it is fair to say that the southern stereotype is not completely true, the reason things become stereotypes is because part of it is accurate. If you take the average Shanghainese and the average Beijinger, you can most definitely tell the difference. The thing about Shanghai is that it has it all. It has awesome universities, monuments, cultural sites, ect. It can't just be considered the chinese place for money. It is much more.

The reason I focused on Shenzhen I think it is a unique anomaly. It was originally built as a testing ground for foreign investment. 20 years later, it has become one of the economic and financial axis in China with its economic output, stock exchange, gdp, proximity to hk, foreign companies, ect.

Although I might work in a factory, Most of my friends here are high in social status. They have enough money to own their own homes, have nice cars, and enjoy a western-like life (My boss has multiple businesses in HK and lives on the Peak). Even so, they (my boss included) do not live life for happiness like westerners do. It's money, money, money, the same as with the factory workers who are only focusing on the bottom line. I feel that with friends in the north, after a certain stage of success, people live to enjoy life, not for the pursuit of money.

This is why Shenzhen and HK is so interesting. (I think, and have seen personally, that these are the people who have been making huge loans to put into the Chinese Stock Market)...

b.cheng --

Interesting you suggest NYC as the money city because in my initial draft of my post, I was going to start it off with Saigon(money) and Hanoi(culture) and Los Angeles(money) and NYC(culture). Of course NYC is the financial capital, but it is also the cultural capital and its citizens are not usually viewed as being as money hungry as, let's say LA. Then you have Houston (a city I know pretty well), which is viewed as a money city, but actually has amazingly strong museums and music scene.

But then you have countries where one city essentially dominates every category. You mention London that way, to which I would add Seoul, Tokyo, and Paris.

Mr. Li --

I certainly concur that the view of money will be different in a place like China as compared to a place like Denmark.

Mike (Shenzhen Undercover)--

Shenzhen has to be the archetypical "money city" as it has no real history (yet) beyond money. That does make it fascinating.

I think my post was more problematic because I threw in the "poltitical" city, too. At the end of the day, I really think its only stereotypes. CLB points out the example of Houston and its a good one, but I think there's always that battle to have one city . Sure, most people would think of NYC as the cultural capital. But I think Chicago can put up a good fight, too. It has excellent museums, some of the best architecture, a great music scene (including being the Northern home of the blues), and is probably the hottest food city in the US right now (with the likes of Achatz, Cantu, Trotter, etc).
I think Shenzhen is a "money" city, because as CLB points out, it has no history whatsoever and is severely lacking in cultural sites.

However, I think when asked, most Chinese would name Shanghai as the "money" capital because of its importance. The Shanghai Museum is probably the best in all of China, but what does Shanghai have besides that? The Bund? Which housed all the foreign banks and trading companies? Pudong? With the same lack of history as Shenzhen.

Sorry, I see my mistake now, I'm focusing too heavily on the "capitals" instead of just saying its a "money city" or "culture city." I think the interesting question is do most countries have 1 city serve both (or all 3 if you throw in politics) purposes or is it more common to have the split that exists in the US and China?

b.cheng --

Chicago has some culture and, more importantly, the Chicago Cubs. Certainly a country can have more than one "culture city" and "money city." I do think your question is the more interesting one, and here's one more for you: Does everyone who is anyone want to live in [fill in the blank with the biggest city].

What I mean by this is that in many citeis, one cannot be deemed successful in certain professions unless one works in THE big city. Korea is this way, where all the best lawyers are considered to be in Seoul. Ditto with Japan and Tokyo, Russia and Moscow, France and Paris. Whereas, in the United States, I do not think anyone would dispute that many cities have great lawyers and great firms. Why is this the case? Is this true for China? I do not think so.

I think the default Chinese attitude towards money-making is a sort of double-think: On one hand, it is good to be making as much money as one can; on the other hand, there is a profound and pervasive feeling that wealth is but one of many illusions in this transient world. This seems to apply whether you are from the South or North.

My observation is that this sort of double-think also creates 'double-living': One part of the self is a character within an on-going TV soap opera, play-acting according to the script. Yet another part of the self is among the audience, passively watching what goes on within the TV set.

I wonder if anyone else also feels the same way.

"Whereas, in the United States, I do not think anyone would dispute that many cities have great lawyers and great firms. Why is this the case? Is this true for China? I do not think so."

I love comparing US and China because there are so many parallel to draw between them. Most of countries in the world are small geographically and population-wise. All countries named above British, France, and Japan are small and Russia is large but the livable part is small. Also, the populations are homogeneous with long traditional central government.

Both China and US are large geographically and in population. China has been divided as much as united and even today, provincial governments in China probably has power and influence closed to state governments in the US. Central government is relatively weak in both. I would argue that US federal government is more powerful then Beijing central government in comparison but that's for some other time.

We are more likely to see cities developed in China similar to US because their political, economical and geographically similarity.

Wabisabi --

I would think most thoughtful people the world over feel this way.

Mr. Li -- I agree with you on the US/China comparision and I think I was mistaken in my comment. Of course Shanghai, Shenzhen and Beijing have great lawyers, but I also know for a fact that there are some excellent lawyers in Qingdao, Xiamen, Xi'an, and Dalian (just by way of example) because we have worked with them.

My father frequently sends me copies of his MSN business discussions with his Chinese counter parts so I can keep abreast of situations over there. Around 70% of all his products are manufactured for him in China.

This is part of a recent discussion he had with one of his manufacturers (I have edited company names)

Chinese manufacturer:

How is everything going? For us, we still have problem of getting labour from the North and the West, labour market open last weekend, but in the meant time, we can only get 20 new workers.

We need extra 60-70 worker in order to get all the work on time. I have to go up to china tomorrow to have a meeting with the local govt to see how they can get us more labour.

In fact, this is not just our problem, it is a problem for all factories in China, doesn't matter North or south or west.

English distributor:

Can not believe you can even have labour problem in China!

Chinese manufacturer:

We have labour problem for the last 2-3 years. The reason is that people in china are getting more wealthy, so they don't need to come down 1000 miles from their home to get a job. Maybe 200-300 miles, they can get a job already. Also labour cost is increasing, in Canton, 20 years ago a labour cost 200 RMB, today it cost 2,000 RMB. plus a lot of benefit!!!!!!

(END)

Does this ring true?

Sivos --

Yes.