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To The China Expats Leaving: Don’t Let The Door Hit You On The Way Out

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Did a post the other day, entitled, Will The Last Expat In China Please Turn Off The Lights?  It was on how it seems so many well-known/well-respected expats are leaving China and writing about it.  Got a lot of really good comments to that post, but the most recent one really stood it.  It is from “Harold Janson” and while I find it far too harsh and even inaccurate in many respects, I do think it raises some interesting and controversial issues. Most importantly, I think it is well worth a read and so I am running it below.

I’ve been here for a solid 12 years.  Married, own an apartment have a nice sporty car and am starting a family.  I missed out on the 80s and the fun of FEC, but oh the memories China and I share.  Yes, prices have risen, property has gotten expensive and the little annoyances have never improved.  There is a series of letters by an American in Shanghai that was written a good 100 years ago. It should be required reading for every single expat in China as a primer.  Simple fact is that some things never change, no matter how much you want them to, no matter how much you push and scream for them to change, they just simply will not.  Or they change, but not for the better as far as you are concerned.  And this is China.  Accept it, adapt to it or give up and run away.

Do I expect the best schools in the world for my future crotch goblins? No, of course not.  They will be getting a Hukou and slapped into the private schools nearby which are reasonably priced and this will be supplemented by being good parents who give a damn.  The resources are just there for the picking to be honest and they are not expensive.  Want to teach your kid all about electronics? Taobao and the local shops have EVERYTHING you could possibly need.  Art classes in school not up to your expectations? Make connections with a professional artist who can use an eager assistant and some cash… loads of starving artists who would jump at it.  I have done work with the international schools and they are honestly a joke, loads of cash, loads of resources, but they are daycare facilities for lazy expats and the kids don’t come out all that great in the end.  Quite a few just go with homeschooling if the kid has a foreign passport.  When it comes down to it, if you are so busy that you have no time for your own kid and don’t earn enough to pay for an international daycare school, then yep, your time here is at an end.

Now, my job is flexible as all hell, I can technically live whereever the hell I want to without any real impact.  I can work from my apartment in Beijing as easily as I can work from our house in Shaanxi as easily as I can work from a beach in Thailand.  I choose to live here and continue to choose to live here, not in spite of the random crap that has to be dealt with, but because of all the great stuff living here provides.

So, some whine about the pollution.  I dont care to be honest, it’s better than it was when I first came.  So much better.  Gone is the black smog-line on white tiled buildings.  Gone is the “death zone” between floors 11-15.

Whine about the water.  It starts out fine, the problem is what happens to it once it reaches your faucet.  Surely you can afford 20 kuai for a bottle of nongfu? Or a few hundred for a decent filter system.  It’s also not some magical new thing and people have been boiling and drinking it forever without dying from it.

Whine about the food scandals.  If anything, it’s a GREAT thing that they are being exposed, do you honestly believe for even an instant that this has not been going on forever? Exposure and press means it’s being cracked down on at least to some degree rather than ignored entirely.  What’s that you say? Buying food out of the back of that van parked by the river to save 3 mao isn’t a great idea?  Gasp!

Whine about the prices going up.  So on one hand you want to see infinite growth, and on the other you want to see prices stay the same cheap forever, well, that doesn’t happen.  I’m sorry, but those days of eating out for 20 kuai are gone.  Just like those days of fen being useful are gone forever.

Whine about the traffic.  Blame here is half-half.  Half on the foreign companies marketing cars as the new “must have” and half on Chinese for being first generation drivers.  As a driver in Beijing, I can flat out state for a fact that the majority of traffic jams are caused by utter stupidity, not lack of infrastructure.  In my family, I am 5th generation driver who was taught by a 4th generation driver.  This is a country that until literally 8 years ago had no laws that said you had to pay attention to stop lights and that turning on lights at night going through villages was illegal. The vast majority of drivers here have only picked it up over the last 15 or so years, so yes, it’s chaos, this will not change overnight.  Laws need to be refined, attitudes need to adapt.

Whine about the economy.  A “hard landing” is 7% growth.  Think about that for a moment before you keep reading.  All that “wasteful spending” in the end has resulted in some magnificent achievements that will stand regardless of what happens.  Yell about ghost malls which popped up once developers were banned from squatting.  They later refined the squatting practice and turned it into golf courses and “parks” which counted as “green space” for the neighboring communities and made local government look good on paper.  Malls are cheap use of large amounts of land for later, actual development.  Ghost cities.  They are not unsold, the problem is that the buyers were all investors with hot money to dump into something and by doing so inflated the prices to a point where locals had no real shot at it.  No longer possible now due to housing purchase restrictions, which is why all that capital is flying overseas to snap up property that can generate rent and produce some possible capital gains.  Rich people losing money isn’t something the government (or society) really cares about.

More on the economy.  China is stockpiling resources and acquiring hard assets.  After every bust there is a boom again and those who prepare for it best end up on top when it happens.  Economies pouring trillions into sustaining a failing status quo . . . . well, that’s not such a hot thing to think about.  Over here we have a lot of people in charge who really want to stay in charge and as such they will do pretty much anything they can to ensure they stay in charge.  China still has many many more tools in the box and bullets in the gun left.  Elsewhere? Not so much.  Please pay careful note to the way China is developing markets in South America and Africa, they are not simply “exploiting resources”, they are building future markets and bringing stability to places that HAVE been exploited and marginalized since forever.

Naked Officials.  This is actually a great thing in so many ways.  It pretty much ensures the end of the line for generational dynasties as far as government goes.  Sure, they’ll come back and be handed the keys to industry, but at least they will have actual skills to apply.  The next generation will see the spark of the next great boom.  And for the useless ones, well, they get to go be playboys overseas driving around in super cars and pissing away daddy’s ill-gotten money, at least we won’t have to deal with them over here anymore… good luck rest of the world!

The “me” culture and money money money.  What the hell did you expect to happen? The west wanted a market to dump their shit on and wanted a market that could afford it.  That was the entire basis of “opening China”.  You get a whole lotta “new money” that acts like “new money”, shock, surprise.  This spending is also the only thing that is keeping a large number of foreign blue chips in business anymore, as if they had to rely on revenue from their traditional markets, they’d have died out long ago.  The old petty corruption didn’t vanish when the figures grew larger, it just grew right along with them. Money buys power, power begets money.  The only difference here is that it’s more out in the open and obvious, while in the US, it’s all codified and legitimized in various ways.

Oh no, still no democracy.  1.? billion people, foreign interests running rampant, big money at play and wildly hot tempers when something doesn’t turn out as expected.  Sorry, but I prefer long-term planning and stability to everyone gets to choose the prettiest liar whose only thought is “how will I get elected again”.  Let those in the upper echelons fight it out amongst themselves in private, it really does not matter and there is infinitely better vetting and merit-based review than any voting will ever provide for.  Polarizing China is not a smart idea.

Speaking of politics… politics.  China’s growing a pair (finally), or at least realizing they can throw their weight around some.  It’s the Great Game all over again in many regards.  Soft power investments are paying off and attempts to harm the Chinese economy are not a smart idea… as it’s quite literally the only thing keeping many other nations and MNCs afloat right now.  If you track the oh-so-familiar buzz words in international media, you can pretty much pick apart who is on what side at least marginally.  It’s pretty entertaining to watch unfold and there are big things coming relatively soon.  One side making power plays, while the other side whines and moans about losing the game they designed to only allow for themselves to win.

Inflation… aka, the “bbbbut I’m not rich anymore” syndrome.  Sure, you came a long time ago, back when your precious forex was king.  You were pampered in a villa or compound and your “expertise” provided a wage that beyond comprehension for most.  Life was grand, taxi fare was a joke, fine dining was cheaper than fast food back home and personal servants were a dime a dozen.  You hung out and got shit-faced with other expats in run-down grungy bar-streets on beer that was cheaper than water.  Getting a hold of various imports made you the “go to guy” in your circle.   Hell, you didn’t even have to speak Chinese, just live in that bubble and your company got you a translator… after all, it’s not like they are going to trust the locals to manage their operations.  Well, that colonial life is nearing an end, sorry.  Chinese are coming back from overseas and are more qualified than you ever were, willing to work for far less and are far less demanding.  You never bothered to buy property, after all, rent was cheap and the company paid it.  You find yourself now in a hilarious situation where the economy boomed all around you and you were too trapped in your little bubble to notice.  Oh, and that side-project you were working on? Yea, it finally got shut down by the government because you never bothered to be legal about it.

How about now? Fairly easy to get pretty much everything, gone is the exciting thrill of the hunt for random shit to pamper your existence.  Vanishing are the quaint hutongs of Beijing that lack bathrooms and rustic living (most residents WANT to be developed so they can cash out on the property and have a modern life).  And suddenly you find that eating out is no longer cheaper than eating-in, it’s almost as if people demand more money for things in a world where your day job is reliant on pushing overpriced crap to the public.

Food inflation is not due to China, it’s due to global markets and that whole “one price” bullshit.  Also due to futures manipulation going on overseas, which is another whole ball of wax.  Wait and see what happens when China finally says enough and reinstates price controls and restricts exports of strategic resources.  Also, that money doesn’t just vanish, it’s transferring a whole shitload of wealth to the countryside…. those who fail to take advantage will be replaced with those who do.  You know, the quaint countryside of massive inefficiency, do you dare consider what will happen when it stops being so inefficient?  I’ll tell you what happens, things get magical.  In my wife’s small little farming village hometown, we have >personally< invested around $500k over the last 5 years in pushing for better practices and more economically productive labor.  Before we started, the average yearly income was around 6000 RMB per year, it’s pushing 60,000 now and it’s sustainable.  Small scale, only about 100 families, but it entirely reversed the flow of youth running to the cities there and neighboring villages are studying the hell out of what we did to make it happen.  I’m not an NGO, I’m not a profit-seeker, this isn’t even my field of expertise, it was a side project at best and it’s fun to see actual results happen.  And not, it was not altruistic, we have our own operations ongoing within the family and the proceeds from that are more than enough, boosted by economies of scale provided by the other families.  Fairly win-win in the end.

In summation, you only are gonna get out what you put into this place, and rarely, if ever will the two balance out, if the only thing you have to contribute is vague and intangible, that’s probably what you will get out of it at best.  Sorry English teachers, in the end you are useless sacks of white flesh.  Sorry expat bubble community, if the only thing you can do is cater to the expat community, don’t expect to see anything come from China.  Sorry trading companies, your reliance on cheap crap being made here that you can mark up 50x cost didn’t really benefit anyone in the end and those factories are being pushed up the value chain and cutting you the fuck out of the equation.  Sorry foreign consultants, an entire generation of Chinese are coming back from overseas and can do your job better.

If anything is going on here, it’s a shift, a rather large one, a rather difficult one, but a shift none the less.  Those who can’t hack it are smart to get out, because they will not survive.  You can see that shift rather clearly if you look at the composition of companies here.  Fewer companies with foreign management, far more with Chinese management.  You may feel it’s unfair, the government is denying you the ability to succeed through red tape and regulation and whatever your excuse is.  After all, you’ve been doing the same thing you’ve been doing for the past 20 years and suddenly it’s not working anymore.  Oops, China’s getting it’s shit together.  Labor laws are becoming a real thing, your business model is dying and you cannot adapt.  This exact shift happened to our own industry starting about 5 years ago.  We spent a decade offshoring our bitch-work to India for cheap while we made out like bandits.  Indian outsourcers kinda sorta got their shit together and realized they could have so much more of the pie, seeing as they were doing all the hard work already.  They shifted gears and are now becoming players on the scene, and they do it for cheap.  We have been forced to rethink our entire industry as they gobbled up a huge chunk of it.  This process is still ongoing.  Those that resist and cry about their clients being stolen ultimately just go under and fail, those that dream up excuses fail.  Those that innovate and reach are being rewarded with fat contracts and huge buyouts.

Summation numero 2: Far too many expats came here pampered and treated like royalty, and this made up for what was, in their minds, lacking or deficient.  They are now no longer royalty and those nagging issues either stayed the same or amplified from their view without the royal treatment to make up for it.  As the western economies are either dead or dying, there is also a large influx of Generation Worthless trying to carve out a living by rushing over here, and yes, they are annoying as all hell and piece by little piece helping to tear down that image you spent the last decade plus to build.  You went from 同志 to 外国朋友 to 老外 to 死老外 because of them, after all, you didn’t change, China changed and you don’t like it anymore.  So better find an excuse to get out of dodge and make it sound like you didn’t fail and have zero qualifications to deal with China.

As far as the “great expat exodus”, let me know when permanent resident card holders start fleeing en mass, not because I want to join in, but because that in and of itself is an amazing signal that there is a void to be filled.  Those who stay on through the tough times and make themselves useful have a history of receiving the greatest rewards later.

So what do you think?  Please don’t hold back, not that anyone would or ever does….

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  • http://www.landedbook.com/ Christopher Dillon

    A little harsh — and I don’t share the author’s lack of concern about pollution — but otherwise spot on. Similar departure patterns happened in Japan and Hong Kong.

  • BHirs

    “Accept it, adapt to it or give up and run away.”  This sentence is not a fair.

    It’s very possible to have adapted and be forced out.  One of the many options that are not covered in this comment.  My previous boss, who had worked as a business professional (legitimately, I’m not talking about some douchey kid) in China for over 26 years was recently asked to leave despite having amazing guanxi and doing a job that wasn’t possible by a native Chinese citizen.

    I agree w/ most of what you’ve said here -politically and economically (I even agree with the passion in which you’ve said it!), but I know many expats just like this one, who have spent MORE than two decades here contributing to Chinese society – some have married locals – who are being forced out against their will based on arbitrary quotas for foreigners set by the PSB.  Just the other day our our local PSB told a local doctor (Harvard Medical, mind you… the kind you’d probably want around) point blank that they were tasked with getting rid of “50% of the foreigners by the end of the year.”  I don’t know if that is true but I trust the source completely.   I was working in TianJin earlier this year and the PSB told the company I was working for that they are tasked with getting rid of 1/3 of the foreigners.  I’ve heard this in three other cities I’ve visited as well, all with different percentages.  This doesn’t make it true, however, the 50% mark did come directly from the horses mouth.  Also, these numbers have been communicated to me by Chinese staffers, not by crazy emotional foreigners. 

    This may just be an issue w/ western China because I can honestly and humbly say I’ve not experienced any of what has been mentioned here.  I live in the wild West and if you don’t speak Chinese, fend for yourself, adapt, you literally can’t last 5 months.  I’ve never had a personal servant (or even a Baomu) and up until two years ago there were no bars to get shit faced in.  Beyond that, from when I moved here until 2008 there wasn’t one single ‘western-style’ restaurant to even go eat at.  Not a single option.  This is a city of 2.5 million and the provincial capital, mind you.

    I don’t say these things to push back on this comment, but to say that there is no way we can account for the vast size and situation from place to place.  No one definition or description of China will ever be accurate.

    I’ve worked two legitimate jobs in China, have owned my own business here and have a resume that includes 3 Fortune 50 companies.  I’ve employed locals and followed the local law to the letter, even stopping by my local police station regularly to let them know I’m “Still around.”  Yet my future here is anything but intact.  I would argue that THIS is the current China I live in.  If I’m a threat then I’m ok with them getting rid of me.  If a Chinese person can do my job, then man, I’ll let them take it and I’ll leave.  But for now, I’m here.  I do love China, but China has never coddled me.  Beyond that, we’ve really not seen the ‘visa squatters’ out west, folks not contributing to society so we’ve also not seem the extreme hatred for those types of foreigners yet.  I’ve not seen it, but every time I go to Beijing I see it – people who have no business being in China and I get just as frustrated as the Chinese.

    I think the point here might be contribute to society, truly adapt, and hope they let you stay.

    I can say this – I’ve been frustratingly blocked many times this year from doing my job by the government directly – One of the fun things about living in a city where you can’t ‘hide’ as a foreigner since there are very few of us.  They know me.  I know them.  And it’s becoming more and more difficult to fairly do my job.  But this is China and I’m a guest despite how long I’ve lived here…

    I’m never going to be convinced that they are completely comfortable here and that some sort of PSB quota won’t include me.  I feel like when/if I leave China, it won’t be by my own volition and I’m not going to bitch and complain about it, because they are a sovereign nation and I’m just a guy.  I used to think I was here for the long haul, but it seems that might not be true, sadly.

    **I also live in western China, so the politics are a bit different – however, it’s way less modern, way less convenient, and in the years I’ve been here I’ve never been pampered or treated with anything cautious optimism and fear.

    Again, I agree with much of what is said, but I fear this comment fails to account, in some cases, for the vast nature of China and variation from place to place.  These things may be true for the larger metro areas, but I’ve not seen them true of the smaller cities (1-4 Million)  

    Thanks!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Harold-Janson/100000792053950 Harold Janson

      True, it really does not account for the wild west view, it’s more a focus on the Beijing and Shanghai scene.  That 50% quota thing, yea, I can probably believe it happening in some places as well.  China’s not blind, they see this recent influx of foreigners as a result of the economic realities of the world.  If anything it’s a directive from on high that is being taken in a stupidly literal way.  Idiot officials hear a thing and want to impress their superiors, it’s only happened since forever.  It’s not fair or sane, but life rarely is.  In the end, yep, we’re guests here.  Your complaints are entirely valid, and I’m not discounting them for even a moment.  Our little farm experiment could all go up in smoke overnight on the whim of some idiot who’s been swayed the right way, but the way it’s been done it’s somewhat unlikely.  Taking credit for nothing is, over the years, the only way I have ever seen anything be successful in changing things for the better.  Be silent about it, put ideas out there and let locals run with them, nugde some in the shadows along the sidelines but NEVER take ownership.  Doing so is just painting a target on yourself as “arrogant foreigner who thinks he knows better than 我们中国人”.  It’s like that Inception movie… they have to think that they had the original spark of an idea to run with it.

      My own thoughts about this place go back to when I was a student here, riding a bike in heavy traffic. One specific moment I found myself in the middle of the street, forced there by traffic conditions, with a pair of giant double-length buses on either side of me and me with about an inch of clearance from either handlebar.  One in the bike lane that I chose to go around, another zipping past it and the first bus now pulling out.  On the blind whim of either driver, I would be a stain in the road.  Fortunately I was able to get through and back into the bike lane. It gave me this single enlightening moment of clear thought.  ”Riding a bike here is not like back home, in any given half-second I can be instantly killed, and one day I’ll probably be run over by a bus… and I can accept this”.  That and laughing in the face of adverse situations over the years, just at the stupid humor of the situation itself.  Sure, you’re screwed, don’t get angry, don’t cry, don’t moan… just laugh and figure out a way out of the mess that doesn’t make more messes later.  I’m here for the long haul, for better or worse.

      And finally, yes, China is HUGE and diverse, absolutely impossible to try and cram it all under a single definition or generalize about it at all.  But that’s what makes it fun, now isn’t it? :)

  • Info

    It’s a good counter argument and view point. I think it also illustrates that it’s our own view points and personalities that shape our own future. He doesn’t mind that his kids go to local schools. Some do. He also doesn’t seem to mind that he children will have a Chinese passport. Some do. To each their own.

    Whatever the case is it’s up to ourselves to make our own choices. With the internet it’s just easier to get the word out. 10yrs ago we would never know why some people want to leave. Now we know what they ate for breakfast.

    It’s a different world out there. 

  • ecodelta

    Quite interesting response

  • Hua Qiao

    Whatever floats your boat. Just don’t piss off the wrong people or you’ll end up face down in some mud hole. Have a nice life.

  • stardave2020

    I was very sad to read the original articles, culture understanding between US and China will be crucial for the development in coming decades. But reading this also put it in perspective.

    Did they leave because life was getting too hard for them? Judging from Chinese here in US, it is obvious they have much better work ethics than their peers, or they simply have another alternative option to better their life, if so this is to normal, as many people seek better life all over the world.

    But the part of disillusionment about the lack of political change is pretty stupid, did they really can be so native to believe that China will change their political system? Although CCP are not exactly perfect, but for the past few decades they have been successful in governing the nation overall, it is laughable that they don’t have their own independent plans.

    Nevertheless, I see far more ignorance of people in the West’s lack of understanding towards China.

    • Iain H

      1. There is a lot to push back on in that piece but the best points have probably been made by Einar Tangen and Phil H. First, that complaining ad nauseam with no solution is boring. Second, that the narrative presented here rests on too many premises that can be considered in so many different lights that it really comes down to personal circumstances and viewpoints as to what *your* actual reality is. 2. I’m wondering if one piece is enough for the author to deal with whatever it is that is causing him so much consternation. Is it that others’ are leaving or that so many are complaining and not actually leaving?3. Dave, we all know you are Chinese by your writing. Coming on here to
      suggest Americans’ are more slovenly in their work ethic, and that
      people desiring moves toward democracy are “pretty stupid,” does not
      facilitate your implied hope of increased “cultural understanding.”

  • Einar Tangen

    Frankly, I like and agree with the major
    premise, and fail to see how it is harsh or inaccurate. It would be preferable
    if expats would stop whining and either, live with, engage or leave China. China
    is far from perfect, but the “drone of discontent” will not change
    it. If you prefer a different country, go there, if you have a solution, try
    it, but persistent passive aggressive belligerence does not make you a superior
    being, just a bore.

    A good guest is gracious, thoughtful and
    tries to leave things a little better the way they were found; a piece of advice
    given to me by my grandmother, which I have found very useful. 

  • Thomas Caron

    I love my life in China, and at sixty years old can’t imagine ever going back to the USA to live. I make a comfortable living doing what I love, and I’m neither a teacher nor some cosseted company cog here to make a killing and get out. The cost of living is low, the food is fantastic, and the women are educated, self-possessed, and beautiful. My work is respected, not merely patronized, a welcome contrast late in life to the forty years of lip-service and low pay I endured before making the move to Shanghai. America has become a navel-gazing, gun crazy country in decline, that flaunts its ignorance like a badge of honor. The Chinese people are industrious, forward looking, and dedicated to improving themselves. News flash: All governments are corrupt. What matters most is respect, pride in a job well done, and the opportunity to contribute in some small measure to a great and ancient and thriving culture. That is what China has given me. Let the self-important philistines suck on sour grapes.

  • Anon this time

    I agree that the post above is too harsh. Most of us foreigners are in China because of the opportunities, and with every opportunity, there is opporunity cost.  After around 5 years here I am considering whether the cost is worth it — in terms of health risks and general quality of life — and I am leaning toward “no”. 

    For health risks, I know parents whose children have chronic asthma (even requiring oxygen as young children).  This is not a genetic condition as far as the doctors are aware.  I have been hospitalized for food poisoning here.  Usually foods poisoning occurs at least once a year here, and I never eat street food or in questionable places. I never experienced this elsewhere.  There are many more examples of dangers you face here that just don’t seem worth it.

    For inflation, I see it as a matter of value for money.  I can afford to buy things.  I just don’t want to buy them at the prices they charge here. Can I afford a gym membership for two hundered dollars per month? Yes – but I will not pay it.  That is how much an annual membership in a comparable gym would cost at home. Instead, I pay too much for a very poor gym.  There are many examples like this.

    For housing, the quality is quite poor, even in so-called “international” standard buildings. Even if it were good quality, it wouldn’t make sense to buy property here. An investor seeking to rent out properties should see a return on assets of about 10 to 15% in the US.  Example: a house worth 100k renting for 1000 a month would yeild a return on assets of 12%.  (We own rental houses like this in the US.)  In Beijing, a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment within the 4th ring sells for around 750k, and would yield rents of around 1500, give or take, for a return on assets of 2.4%.  If the property purchase was financed it would take over 40 years to repay the note, even if there were no interest. It just isn’t a good investment.

    There are lots of examples I can give like this.  In the end, it is a matter of what makes you happy.  I think the poster you reference above is happy in China and simply is sick of hearing people complain.  I can understand that perspective.  On the other hand, I do think that China is a hardship post for most of us.  You can’t fly home for every family event and there is quite a lot that you miss out on. Convenience really does matter if you are here for the long term.   

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Harold-Janson/100000792053950 Harold Janson

    Also, quick note.  I was off on the series of letters.  British, not American. >_<

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6ORJ346FS2EC6JN5OEJXY3CPCM E. K

    So this guy married some woman from a small village and decided to stay in China..great for him. As for the rest of us.. you know what I am concerned about the pollution and lack of ethics when it comes to things that can kill me…and not because I want to live in a “bubble” but because I am pretty sure I don’t want to have a 2 lb tumor cut out of me in 15 years…. he complains about the other expats then bitches and moans about the “one price bullshit and manipulation of global markets”. How is that any different than expats bitching about China. If you don’t like it don’t buy global commodities..maybe China shouldn’t have bulldozed and poisoned their land and joined the WTO to be subject to global forces?

    Great you love China and want to live there..we get it. Some of us want to live a better quality of life and not be subject to bad air, water, etc.. it is a choice we all make.

  • http://www.politicomix.net/ Roberto

    Superb.

    Too harsh? It’s one man’s view. With the (important ) qualifier:

    “Simple fact is that some things never change, no matter how much you want them to, no matter how much you push and scream for them to change, they just simply will not.  Or they change, but not for the better as far as you are concerned.  And this is China.  Accept it, adapt to it or give up and run away.”

  • bystander

    I think Mr. Janson is missing the point.  He is painting the picture of a bunch of pampered, whining expats heading for the exits because the pampering isn’t what it used to be.  I don’t think that’s the case.  The pampering hasn’t changed much from my point of view, in the sense that there are lots of nice things available in China for a reasonable amount of money.  The actual amount might have changed a little bit, but the quality of things has gone up too.  So what?  There are also lots of nice things available in New York and Paris and Tokyo.

    I think there are lots of expats here who are more serious about accomplishing things with their lives and work than Mr. Janson acknowledges.  They don’t simply want to be pampered, they want to *do something* or to be part of something interesting that has a bright future, or at least *might* have a bright future.  It used to be possible to live and work and China, and to turn a blind eye to whatever negatives there were (and also to enjoy the positives), by hoping that things were getting better, that opportunities would grow, for locals but also for foreigners.  Maybe foreigners are at a big disadvantage, the thought went, but things are opening and getting better and so they will get better for foreigners too, if only relatively.  That’s why foreigners go the U.S. by the way.  Sure, they like the clean water and the shopping malls, but they hope for something better for their future and their families’ futures.  Something deeper than a shopping mall experience.  What’s happening in China at the moment, in my opinion, is that many expats are waking up to a different possibility: what if things are actually going to get worse (maybe much worse) before they get any better?  What if the supposed future opportunities were just so much disingenuous bait to get foreigners to dump their money and ideas and labor here for the exclusive benefit of locals?  What if the game is rigged not only in the short terms but in the long term as well, maybe permanently, or at least for long enough to make it not worth it to buck the forces?  To turn the tables around, how many naked officials would seek emigration to the U.S. if their property might be confiscated on a whim, if every transaction they entered into was an opportunity to be taken to the cleaners (complete with cooperation by US officials), etc. etc.?  Not so may I think.  Naked officials want to put their assets in the US to safeguard them, to take advantage of the rule of law, property rights, and relative political stability.  They might well be onto something.

    To put a name on my own qualifications, I have a doctorate in computer science and have had a quite successful high tech and academic career in the U.S.  There’s no sense in which I need to run to China in order to have a high standard of living.  I think I was much more pampered (haha) in the U.S., not that that’s a very good reason to live somewhere.  But there was such an optimism and forward-looking energy in China a decade ago, it was practically irresistible to someone with entrepreneurial urges.  That’s why of course so many high-tech types were falling over themselves to get over here and make something happen.  Is it really the case that they are all having second thoughts merely because they are insufficiently pampered?  Seems to me that’s a pretty dismissive assessment.

  • Nick Stephens

    I wonder if there is a way we could get Mr. Janson back to post or comment further on his family’s very successful investment in his wife’s small farming village.  Maybe that’s not really relevant above the line content for CLB, but if he talked about how it worked more specifically in the comments I think it would be pretty interesting reading.

  • Ande

    Have to say I disagree with almost all that has been
    written in this comment.

    “They will be getting a Hukou and slapped into
    the private schools nearby which are reasonably priced and this will be
    supplemented by being good parents who give a damn.”

    OK? First of all a Hukou means a Chinese passport and
    no foreign passport as that would be illegal. This means that his kids will
    compete for the same Chinese private school as other Chinese kids. I hope he
    has the money and the guanxi to get his kids in school in Beijing, because
    waidi kids are not first in line for the good private schools in large cities.
    I guess after having taken extra classes and 送礼了 the price of a local
    Chinese school will be the same as an international. If the local private
    schools don´t work out then his kids can[t even get into the
    international schools, that he dislikes so much, as they don´t take kids with
    Chinese passports. Homeschool for 12 years? Sounds nice….

    “Now, my job is flexible as all hell, I can
    technically live wherever the hell I want to without any real impact.”

    Yeah but your kids are not, so that party is over.
    Unless of course you are aiming to be worst dad in the world.

    “Whine about the food scandals. If anything, it’s
    a GREAT thing that they are being exposed, do you honestly believe for even an
    instant that this has not been going on forever?”

    If your only criteria for something to get better is
    that the offender recognizes guilt, then I sure would not like to work with
    you. They need to react and change their ways or else its just words…It has
    not been going on forever. 25 years ago China did not have food scandals
    because 95% of all foods were produced and sold locally. I guess the writer´s
    knowledge of Chinese society starts somewhere around the 90s.

    “Whine about the prices going up.”

    OK now someone is mistaken local Chinese complaints
    for expats complaints. The price hikes in China over the last 3 years have been
    extreme and only an arrogant person would point fingers at anyone addressing
    that fact. This is a real issue for a lot of people, so think before you write.

    “Whine about the economy. A “hard landing” is 7%
    growth” and “More on the economy”

    Hmm I guess economics was not your strong side in
    school. First of all a hard landing is not 7% growth it is 0 or even a
    diminishing economy. There is a real risk that China without reforms will turn
    into the next Japan. As for China´s long in commodities and the USD, that is by
    all means a bet, but it is a very dangerous bet, because it is a naked long
    that by no means is historically justifiable. Look up Victor Shih, Micheal
    Pettis, Patrick Chovanec and Dani Roderik, they know about the Chinese economy
    and they don´t talk about more tools in the toolbox.

    ”Naked Officials”

    Let there be no doubt that only you and The Global
    Times believe corruption is a good thing. Expats and local Chinese alike don´t
    care for it. Corruption naked or fully dressed undermines the system, it feeds
    bad decisions and it picks winners based on connection and not on skill.

     
    “Polarizing China is not a
    smart idea.”

    Inner party elections for posts on city and provinces
    level will unite China and bring stronger accountability into the system. It
    might not be good for foreigners in China, but it would be good for China.

    “One side making power plays, while the other side whines and moans about
    losing the game they designed to only allow for themselves to win.”

    Not quite sure what you are
    talking about here, but China´s issues in foreign policy have been with it
    close neighbors Vietnam, Japan, Philippines, India and Russia. China has not yet
    challenged anyone outside of its regional sphere. Now any real problems with
    its neighbors will result in heavy economical losses to China and the neighbor
    involved, so what was that about power plays again?

    “Wait and see what happens
    when China finally says enough and reinstates price controls and restricts
    exports of strategic resources.”

    There is already a large
    price control system in place and China now imports around 5 – 6% of its food
    from other countries with the US as the biggest exporter.     

    “You know, the quaint
    countryside of massive inefficiency, do you dare consider what will happen when
    it stops being so inefficient?”

    According
    to basic economical theory not much happens. Productivity increases in rural production
    does not mean a net production increase. It usually means a rise in worker
    productivity because of the depopulation in the sector.  Or to put it in plain English the amount of food
    produced does not overall increase there are just fewer guys producing the same
    amount. Why? Because soil is a limited resource and it is diminishing in China
    as we write.  (Hint it not like a factory,
    so diminishing
    marginal returns set in early)

     So to conclude you are absolutely wrong on all
    accounts except for the traffic one, and really living by your own words would
    hamper your child’s possibility.

     The
    problem is that the Chinese government really does not know what it wants right
    now. For 30 years it has fine-tuned reforms started in the 80s. In the last 10
    years the government went long for about 3 trillion in USD and even more in
    commodities while reviving the SOEs and keeping the economy afloat based on
    capital intensive investments in infrastructure. This part of the growth model
    has run its course and how the economy has to consume to grow, but consumption
    means putting money in the hands of private households and taking wealth from
    the State. It also means that foreign goods will gain an even stronger foothold
    in China then they have now. In that sense I think we will see the future of foreigners
    in China within the next 2 – 3 years. If the bet is on consumption (and I think
    it is) then foreigners will have a role to play if the bet is on more
    infrastructure and capital intensive investments then I think the end of the
    line for many foreigners with or without little green books has come.    

    • Ande

      I don´t why my computer messed up the first version, but I wil try again.

      Have to say I disagree with almost all that has beenwritten in this comment

      “They will be getting a Hukou and slapped into the private schools nearby which are reasonably priced and this will be supplemented by being good parents who give a damn.”
       
      OK? First of all a Hukou means a Chinese passport andno foreign passport as that would be illegal. This means that his kids willcompete for the same Chinese private school as other Chinese kids. I hope hehas the money and the guanxi to get his kids in school in Beijing, becausewaidi kids are not first in line for the good private schools in large cities.I guess after having taken extra classes and 送礼了 the price of a local Chinese school will be the same as an international. If the local private schools don´t work out then his kids can[t even get into the international schools, that he dislikes so much, as they don´t take kids with Chinese passports. Homeschool for 12 years? Sounds nice….

      “Now, my job is flexible as all hell, I cantechnically live wherever the hell I want to without any real impact.”

      Yeah but your kids are not, so that party is over.Unless of course you are aiming to be the worst dad in the world.

      “Whine about the food scandals. If anything, it’sa GREAT thing that they are being exposed, do you honestly believe for even aninstant that this has not been going on forever?”

      If your only criteria for something to get better isthat the offender recognizes guilt, then I sure would not like to work withyou. They need to react and change their ways or else its just words…It hasnot been going on forever. 25 years ago China did not have food scandalsbecause 95% of all foods were produced and sold locally. I guess the writer´sknowledge of Chinese society starts somewhere around the 90s.

      “Whine about the prices going up.”

      OK now someone is mistaken local Chinese complaintsfor expats complaints. The price hikes in China over the last 3 years have beenextreme and only an arrogant person would point fingers at anyone addressingthat fact. This is a real issue for a lot of people, so think before you write.

      “Whine about the economy. A “hard landing” is 7%growth” and “More on the economy”

      Hmm I guess economics was not your strong side inschool. First of all a hard landing is not 7% growth it is 0 or even adiminishing economy. There is a real risk that China without reforms will turninto the next Japan. As for China´s long in commodities and the USD, that is byall means a bet, but it is a very dangerous bet, because it is a naked longthat by no means is historically justifiable. Look up Victor Shih, MichealPettis, Patrick Chovanec and Dani Roderik, they know about the Chinese economyand they don´t talk about more tools in the toolbox.

      ”Naked Officials”

      Let there be no doubt that only you and The Global Times believe corruption is a good thing. Expats and local Chinese alike don´t care for it. Corruption naked or fully dressed undermines the system, it feeds bad decisions and it picks winners based on connection and not on skill.
       “Polarizing China is not a smart idea.”

      Inner party elections for posts on city and provinces level will unite China and bring stronger accountability into the system. It might not be good for foreigners in China, but it would be good for China.

      “One side making power plays, while the other side whines and moans aboutlosing the game they designed to only allow for themselves to win.”

      Not quite sure what you are talking about here, but China´s issues in foreign policy have been with it close neighbors Vietnam, Japan, Philippines, India and Russia. China has not yet challenged anyone outside of its regional sphere. Now any real problems withits neighbors will result in heavy economical losses to China and the neighborinvolved, so what was that about power plays again?

      “Wait and see what happens when China finally says enough and reinstates price controls and restricts exports of strategic resources.”

      There is already a large price control system in place and China now imports around 5 – 6% of its food from other countries with the US as the biggest exporter.     

      “You know, the quaint countryside of massive inefficiency, do you dare consider what will happen when it stops being so inefficient?”
      According to basic economical theory not much happens. Productivity increases in rural production does not mean a net production increase. It usually means a rise in workerproductivity because of the depopulation in the sector.  Or to put it in plain English the amount of food produced does not overall increase there are just fewer guys producing the same amount. Why? Because soil is a limited resource and it is diminishing in Chinaas we write.  (Hint it not like a factory, so diminishing marginal returns set in early)

      So to conclude you are absolutely wrong on all accounts except for the traffic one, and really living by your own words would hamper your child’s possibility.

      The problem is that the Chinese government really does not know what it wants rightnow. For 30 years it has fine-tuned reforms started in the 80s. In the last 10years the government went long for about 3 trillion in USD and even more incommodities while reviving the SOEs and keeping the economy afloat based oncapital intensive investments in infrastructure. This part of the growth modelhas run its course and how the economy has to consume to grow, but consumptionmeans putting money in the hands of private households and taking wealth fromthe State. It also means that foreign goods will gain an even stronger footholdin China then they have now. In that sense I think we will see the future of foreignersin China within the next 2 – 3 years. If the bet is on consumption (and I thinkit is) then foreigners will have a role to play if the bet is on moreinfrastructure and capital intensive investments then I think the end of theline for many foreigners with or without the little green books has come. 
       

    • jones jordan

      “25 years ago China did not have food scandals
      because 95% of all foods were produced and sold locally. I guess the writer´s
      knowledge of Chinese society starts somewhere around the 90s.”I guess your knowledge of food scandals only start up roughly in the 2000s. There were plenty food scandals and people known them well. For example, hot pot used to use old oil all the time. But it kept hot pot affordable. So no one gave a damn. 麻辣烫 used to be essentially a shared hotpot with food on a stick. People passing by would sit down eat, and the same pot would be had by people coming later. Add this to some poorly mannered sob who likes double dipping. It’s a stew of germs. Not to mention, it was known that they used old oil as well. These are just 2 prime examples of food scandals. Milk industry has been pulling that shit for ages. Do you really think people don’t know about it? It’s just that back then local milk farmers had more competitive edge. Now days, not so much.

      • Ande

        Are you seriously saying that there were massive large scale food scandals in China in the 1980s ? Dirty food stands and hole in the wall restaurants are not the same as melamine in baby formula. A food scandal referes to the tampering with basic food products by the produceres. This was not common in China in the 80s or 90s because the rural production was not under the same kind of pressure. If your definition of food scandal is bad hygiene then I guess there are food scandal happening every second in the world.

  • Lucifer

    I think you are in denial……

  • http://twitter.com/allroads All Roads Lead to CN

    There will come a time where Harold will sit down with his wife and discuss their options, and whether or not China is the place for them to be.  I guarantee it.

    It may (or may not be) a conversation that starts with a discussion of job opportunities, difficulties starting a business in China, educating their kids, or health, but it will likely be one of them, and what were once “whines” will be something tangible for him.

    R

  • http://twitter.com/deadheartsdoc LivingwithDeadHearts

    He sure spent an *awful* lot of time on that straw-man…

  • r_s_g

    It’s nice that instead of just saying “live and let live” about Mr. Kitto and Mr. Custer, who presumably have viable reasons to do whatever they want with their own lives, Mr. Janson feels it’s necessary to not only explain how anyone who wants to leave China is both incompetent and a big pussy, but we also get to read about how awesome Mr. Janson is with all his money and investment savvy and local connections.

    I’m so impressed by how badass Mr. Janson is. He sounds very secure and not full of himself at all. 

    Seriously, this debate has been ongoing in China’s “expat community” for many years. I don’t understand why anyone needs to write a diatribe about why they’re leaving China and I don’t understand why anyone needs to excoriate them for it. I don’t understand why individual Westerners in China (you never see non-Western expats in China writing this stuff) continue to think their activities in China are so damn special as to warrant a treatise on the subject.
     
    So Mark Kitto is leaving China. I don’t know him and I couldn’t care less. Same goes for Mr. Custer, and I generally ignored his blog since its inception. Mr. Janson wants everyone to know how much of a China hand he is. Again, I simply don’t care. Some expats really love living in China, some hate it, and many (most?) expats fall somewhere in between. I don’t trust any foreigner who has nothing but bad things to say about China, just as I don’t trust any foreigner who will only heap praise on the place. 

    Everybody knows that one annoying foreigner who brags about his (it’s always a guy) guanxi or the fact that he can speak some local dialect or owns a dozen apartments and blah, blah, blah. He’s so culturally savvy and adaptable except, of course, when it comes to other foreigners who don’t measure up to a narrow criteria of how to “succeed” in China. 

  • whocares

    Janson – I am happy for you – enjoy the the ride while it lasts!

  • Michael

    I don’t agree that he claims air pollution in Beijing got better. Here’s today in Beige-jing and you could also go back many months over the last 3/4 year. http://chinaairdaily.com/#Beijing#2012-08-20

  • Stinky Tofu

    Honestly, this rant reads like it was written by one of China’s very own “angry youth” – only with better English. Serious screw loose. The two people I know about (i.e., Charles Custer and Mark Kitto) who have written about their reasons for leaving China certainly don’t deserve this kind of treatment. This piece of work comes from a much darker, irrational place.

    I won’t bother adding my two cents to the debate over what’s happening with China’s economy (who knows for sure?) – let me just say that if you aren’t at least a bit concerned with what’s going on with the society, politics, environment, and food safety here in China, you have your head lodged far up your rear end. It doesn’t take an alarmist to suggest that the next 30 years are likely to be far more difficult than the last 30 – and the first 30 weren’t nearly as easy as most people seem to believe. Raise kids here?! Aside from wanting them to learn to speak fluent Chinese and generally broaden their horizons, I can think of few good reasons to raise them here. On the other hand, I can think of many reasons not to.

    Pampered? Is this joker kidding? China is a hardship assignment for many. My own situation notwithstanding, Beijing is a dump, an utter dump. Not a hair’s width of difference between Beijing and Bangkok. Makes me wish I’d learned Norwegian. Seriously.

  • Phil H

    Whaddya know, China is big enough and diverse enough that we can all pick and choose events and construct our own little narratives to support our personal viewpoints. That’s nice, it’s human, but it’s completely irrelevant to other people. 

    Personally my viewpoint is fairly close to Harold Jansen’s, but I wouldn’t presume to think that it’s generally applicable, or that the little narratives I build make any more sense than his.

    I agree very much with Ande on the kids issue: life with kids is very different to life without kids. You want stability and certainty much more, and China doesn’t offer very much of that. 

    These threads are giving me flashbacks to TalkTalkChina.

  • http://www.postlinearity.com gregorylent

    life has chapters. locations and situations show up when they are needed. this leaving-china story lacks people who understand their inner lives. they only see circumstances, and make up reasons pro or con.

    transformation is accelerating everywhere. go with it.

  • P. Li

    It is difficult for most people to live in a foreign country. Like Mr. Janson said, many Chinese are coming back to China after studying and working in the US, some for more than a decade. There are several SNS dedicated to returnees or 海归 that are very popular. Many of those who have not moved back are thinking about it. “Flowing back or 回流” is a passionate topic among Chinese students and professionals in north America.

    It is perfectly understandable that Mr. Custer and Mr. Ditto chose to leave China. I think the question for them is what options or portunities they have back in the US. Repatriation could be as challenging as moving to a foreign country. I assume if they have gained useful experiences, knowledge and skills during their stay in China that they can use to launch a productive career back home, they would not complain too much about the time they spent here. Sometimes hardship enriches our lives.

  • FOARP

    I hear the same thing in every country I’ve been to, both from locals and long-term expats: “low quality expats are giving us all a bad name and should go home”.

    This is nonsense because basically -

    1) A lot of the expats moaning in this fashion started out in the same way that the people they berate did (e.g., frsh graduate language students or teachers, wannabe consultants etc.). Some people do grow up after the age of 21/25, and judging people by how they behaved in their first year in-country is a bit harsh.

    2) Actually those guys you’re complaining about are here to stay and will be the last to leave. Why? Because long after China starts filling in its skills shortage in other areas, there will still be a need for language teachers, and people are still best off learning the language in a country where it is spoken. Go visit Lan Kwai Fung or Roppongi to see what the future of San Li Tun looks like. An expat lawyer, engineer, business-type, has opportunities elsewhere, and the majority will naturally want to slow down at some point in their lives. Not so the English teacher, who teaches 20 hours a week and preps for something like 5-10, has an enjoyable life centred round talking to people, and from whom not a great deal is expected.

    Suppose you are a genuine crook who can’t get decent work back home because of your criminal record, or someone who got work using a fake university degree, or the kind of mentally unstable expat one comes across occasionally. Are you really going to leave? No. In fact you are much, much more motivated to stay than the legitimate expat because the legitimate expat has more opportunities elsewhere – there’s nowhere else you can live like you do.

    Likewise the stereotypical “couldn’t get laid back home” expat. Do you really think these guys are going anywhere? Would you leave if you were them? No, they’re going to keep hanging around in expat dives hitting on local ladies because, from their point of view, they have nowhere else to go.

    3) The language thing. Several of the prominent ‘success’ stories in China come from guys who never even bothered learning the language (though they may claim otherwise in their bios). More to the point, newbie expats naturally aren’t so good with the language – and once they do get good the majority naturally morph into people who look down their noses at those who still can’t speak the lingo.

    4) Any attempt to make “low quality” expats leave, at least any that I can forsee, is always likely to fail. Again, if you’re trying to get the expats living in China illegally to go, you’re forgetting that they don’t have the paper-work which allows the authorities to do so. You’re also forgetting that they wouldn’t be in the country if there wasn’t an economic need they were fulfilling, and that trying to get them to go just motivates them and their employers to find more loop-holes, pay more bribes and so-forth. In the end, you’re just making things more difficult for legit expats who, again, have more options.

  • Parha Ablat

    Hey writer, two fords for you: Calm Down.    do you have any idea about what you were doing?  I will tell you if you dont.    you are complaning about the who were complaining about others. which means you are one them.

  • Pvernezze

    Me think he doth protest too moch

  • Cynical Observer

    Wanting to be able to breathe the air comfortably (and see clearly through it), drink the water (why do I even need to carry home every glass of water I drink, in the capital of the world’s second-largest economy?) and be confident that the food I eat isn’t fake, adulterated or poisonous … that’s expecting to be pampered?

    Those permanent residents he wants to see leaving before he can be convinced there is a problem.

    A) What about the rising exodus of middle-class and well-off Chinese who are leaving, planning to leave, trying to leave? I’ve been here for 5 years and I don’t recall it being like this when I arrived, or even a couple of years ago. I personally know many such people, so does almost every foreigner I know, and this trend has been well-reported — the rising disgust of many Chinese with their own country. What about the women who sneak into HK and hide until they’re literally in labor, so they can give birth across the border? Why are they doing that? If China is the future of the world, why are so many relatively privileged people leaving? Wouldn’t they logically, be doing just the opposite, not flooding into “declining” countries like the US?

    B) How many foreigners have permanent residence? It happens so rarely, with a mere handful of people now and then, it literally makes the news. I know a guy who’s been here 10 years, continuously legally employed by a well-known state enterprise, proper visa, paid all his taxes yada yada, decent Chinese, married to a Chinese citizen, has a child here, owns an apartment … turned down for PR. Of course, I don’t know everyone who has ever applied for PR and what the outcome was. But how many people are we talking about, and let’s also ask, how many of them are not ethnic Chinese?

  • http://www.facebook.com/heybaby Lewis P. Fader

    I came to China, learned Chinese, made some really important friends, and now I have an awesome job! After work once aweek we have English club and I’m the club captain, but that’s all the English teaching for me.  Of course I could quit this gig and make 16000 元  teaching but I hate that job and too many people have given it a bad name.

  • stig

    I for one take a less nuanced view. I’ve grown home sick. Plain and simple. It’s not reflection of China, it’s much the same now as it was when I first arrived, the difference is simply that I no longer have quite the same nose for adventure as I did five years ago. I had never planned to make this my life, more an interesting investment, a new spin on the world. Time now to move on.

  • http://www.chinalawblog.com/ Dan Harris

    With all due disrespect, why don’t you actually read the post before commenting on it.  This is NOT my speech, I was merely passing on someone else’s because I thought it interesting.  I made clear at the beginning of my post that I didn’t even agree with it.  

    • KopyKatKiller

      Misstyped “Dan”, sorry. I knew it was a re-post. I will edit my comment, if I can.

  • http://profiles.google.com/dcmusicfreak DC Musicfreak

    Pretty shallow grasp of global affairs, very much colored by Chinese media versions of events. Questionable assertions at every turn.

  • Mr Kibbles

    Very good article, China is by far the most interpreting place to be over the next 10 years. I’m very excited to see how they get rid of the trash expats in places like Beijing and Shanghai. I’d say at least half of the expat in Beijing could be kicked out and I don’t think anyone would miss them.

  • Hank Williams

    “If the foreign devils don’t like the xenophobia in China, then they should get out of China!”

  • Spock

    In retrospect, as a foreigner, it  might not have been one of my better decisions to move to a place where the locals refer to foreigners as “foreign devils”. 

  • hollygolightly

    First of all, this guy falls into the Chinese trap of painting the world in ‘Chinese’ and ‘Western’ and blaming all non-Chinese individuals equally for whatever any non-Chinese government ever did. But that’s not the most disturbing part of this story.

    How does a total lack of a sense of justice get completely ignored? How do systematic police abuse, disappearances of outspoken journalists, doctors, and lawyers, a severely hampered justice system and a total disregard of human and civil rights fall off a person’s radar? You don’t think ‘it could happen to you’, do you?

    Besides, the funny thing about democracy is you get to have some checks and balances to remedy most of the other issues mentioned. I don’t see how rule of the mafia called the Communist Party of China is preferable to a relatively harmless pretty-face.

  • Ande

    Rawb: !OP meant that exactly. With fewer people doing the work (efficiency) and a depopulated sector, it means massive unemployment, and then, social unrest. It seems you missed his point. ”

    OP: “You know, the quaint countryside of massive inefficiency, do you dare consider what will happen when it stops being so inefficient? I’ll tell you what happens, things get magical.”

    If your idea of magical is massive unemployment I sure don´t want to see what the down side is. OP´s text does not contain the word unemployment, so I don´t know where got that point from… Thin air?

    Rawb: “You again missed his point. Most commentators on CNBC are saying China is in for a hard landing, over and over, and their hard-landing scenario is 7% growth. OP was mocking this, saying if a hard landing is 7%, then the world is nuts. OP agreed with you. 7% is not a hard landing. China is due for 7% growth. CNBC commentators call this a hard landing.”

    OP: ” All that “wasteful spending” in the end has resulted in some magnificent achievements that will stand regardless of what happens……”Malls are cheap use of large amounts of land for later, actual development.”

    I didn´t miss a thing. He seriously believes that the heavy capital investment in real estate and infrastructure makes economical sense. He forgets the suppression of the household income that follows with these heavy investments. I have no idea what CNBC commentators are talking about, but China is likely headed for a crisis japanese style (slow 3-4 % growth over the next 10 – 15 years).

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HN7CXICJYAIS6Q55ODMIQUDPOA Paul R

    This article was like listening to the homeless guy on the street corner tell his life story

    He gets angrier, more urgent, and more incoherent as the tale goes on.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HN7CXICJYAIS6Q55ODMIQUDPOA Paul R

    Wow – are the moderators on vacation today?

  • Stephan

    Seems the OP hit a nerve.

  • http://twitter.com/factsaboutchina 马可

    Looks like another poor schmuck bought the ‘China Story’ hook line and stinker. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6LCT2XI4IW5HG3XLKC27GXSBTE Ted Wilson

    “…
    let me know when permanent resident card holders start fleeing en mass, not because I want to join in, but because that in and of itself is an amazing signal that there is a void to be filled. ”

    Or the author is too oblivious to know that rats leave a ship for a good reason.

  • john

    wow. I’ve been reading that and thinking about it for days.

    I agree with his perspective on the expat bubble community – his analysis is spot on in this respect. the role for the ‘foreign expert’ and its colonial lifestyle was always going to be a temporary one and I recognised that back in 2005/2006 (when I made the decision not to move to China permanently). There will be a shift and this is underway now, but who knows what the future holds.

    I don’t share his outlook on China generally and its political system and economic prospects. The fact is that in China the government can just suddenly and without warning confiscate all your property and I don’t exactly see what kind of recourse you would have in that type of situation. As other commentators have pointed out, you are living at the whim pretty much of government officials and the wind can easily blow against you and there isn’t much you can really do about it. If you have assets in China you are mad in my opinion. 

    Finally. I really dislike his attitude towards people who are going to China in the hope of trying to make their way in life. Ultimately this has all the hallmarks of someone who thinks they have made it and wants to pull the ladder up behind them. Its a terrible standpoint to have, and possibly the viewpoint of someone heading for a fall of some kind.. 

  • Lajoie9

    Thank You.
    I have to admit that I am part of the problem.
    Time to focus on the Solution.
    As a father and Man in a Sino-American Family…Time for me to adapt and grow.
    I came in with a commitment to growing in China.
    12 years later, Dragon to Dragon, its time to change perspectives, adapt and get with the new program.

    Thank You for your Insight.

    A.W. Lajoie

  • RS

    I would comment on this but… since I am one of those long term expats that left China already, really no need to pay too much attention this blog anymore…