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Gmail In China Not Working As It Should. The Cloud In China As Pie In The Sky?

By Dan Harris on Posted in China Business

It’s official. Gmail in China the last week or so has become seriously erratic. I know this because just today I have recieved three emails from China telling me so. One came from someone in Shanghai, one from Beijing and one came from my co-blogger, Steve Dickinson, who is usually in Qingdao but is right now in Ho Chi Minh City.

The Shanghai person was telling me of his Gmail problems as an aside to an email “conversation” we were having. The Beijing person (a client) was telling me because I had written regarding a confirmation of changes to an agreement on which I had been working. He said about 90% of his emails were leaving China, but his first response to me apparently had not. Steve and I typically send 10-20 emails back and forth a day and so it usally takes us a day or two to realize that not all have been answered. Around 10% of the emails Steve sent me from Qingdao over the last few days never got through.

All three of these people have company email domains/accounts, yet all three choose to run those through Gmail because it has historically been the most reliable email in China. No more.

Steve’s comments on this are as follows: 

These most recent problems with Gmail in China make the idea of using the Cloud in China quite impractical. You never know when you might be unable to get to the site you need. For example, Google Aps is frequently inaccessible, so Google Docs is essentially unusable in China. The concern I raise is not the security of the cloud. My issue is ACCESS to the cloud. It can be blocked at any time in China for any reason. This means cloud computing in China is just not practical.

China’s new Five Year Plan features two whole sections on social control. The folks in Beijing are quite serious about this. As the NY Times says, they are also quite confident that 1) they have the technical ability to pull it off and 2) they will suffer few negative effects if they kill the internet as we know it. They have more important concerns than the internet.

What do you think?

  • Twofish

    Steve: The concern I raise is not the security of the cloud. My issue is ACCESS to the cloud. It can be blocked at any time in China for any reason. This means cloud computing in China is just not practical.
    It’s a lot worse than blockage. If you have some data “in the cloud” you really have no idea who has access to it. For all you know, all your data may be sitting on a server in Ministry of State Security headquarters. With blockage, at least you know you are being monitored.
    Steve: they will suffer few negative effects if they kill the internet as we know it.
    The internet as you know it has never been the internet as someone in Beijing knows it.

  • http://blog.woodsb.net/ Woods

    I am sure people will start to tell you “just use a vpn”. I’d never login to GMail over a VPN as you never know what the company behind the VPN can do. If you are dealing with work related email, I bet you don’t want your connection to pass by some random third party service.
    – Woods

    • Shawn kregan

      “ I’d never login to GMail over a VPN as you never know what the company behind the VPN can do. If you are dealing with work related email, I bet you don’t want your connection to pass by some random third party service.” 

      ITS NOT LIKE YOUR GMAIL ISnt PASSING BY ANYTHING IN CHINA:)

  • http://www.qualityinspection.org Renaud

    Is cloud computing the issue, or are Google-operated cloud services?
    There are many alternatives to Google Apps & Gmail, from lesser-known companies that are I would guess) not really on Beijing’s radar.

  • http://gunshi.wordpress.com/ David

    Hi Dan, on the emergence of the world-wide-web and its contemporary social consequences in China there is of course no simple, neat, or exhaustive response. And I truly believe that China has more important concerns than social control of the internet. Still, this is no doubt, and will continue to be, a relentless issue. This said, in an attempt to comment on the NY Times first point about controlling ACCESS (1) They [Chinese Authorities] have the technical ability to pull it off:
    A 2010 report found that young Chinese (14-27 years old) spend an average of 34 hours each week using real-time communications and social media/networking tools (almost triple the average of the other 12 countries profiled in the report). The type of web-activity that the report surveyed demonstrates the countries obsessive online video game habits (14 hours/week) to enthusiasm for personal blogging and online shopping. One doesn’t have to venture far and wide in China’s cities to find public spaces that are dedicated for “millennials” and “netizens” who swarm in large numbers after school paying 5 rmb/hour to access this digital universe.
    This phenomena seems relentless—and in this light, censorship efforts almost seems futile. It’s like trying to erect a Great stone Wall around a digital world of skyscrapers—where residents own time portals powered and limited only by their own intellectual resources.
    Still, freedom for Chinese netizens to navigate through the digital universe as boundlessly as their counterparts is not the current reality. Sure, this basic right to taking ownership of your own information “time portal” is not denied, but there are rules, there are limits. There are apparent DEAD ENDs, DO NOT ENTER and AT YOUR OWN RISK signs along the digital highways. There is a real psychological fear and degree of control that manifests a perception of being watched, of being targeted. There are censor police populated strategically along the digital highways, following packets of information as they transport from one place to another—taking notes, monitoring, and enforcing.
    But there are new digital highways, roads and paths of expression and thought being constructed each and every day. There are digital tunnels and bridges being built to connect this network, and concurrently elevating the conscience of a nation. Even the policing censors are not naive to the unyielding nature of this progress. Perhaps one day they will even join in developing the infrastructure for the benefit of society.
    Note: this an excerpt from an article that I have recently written that aims to provide a glimpse into the social reality of China as it relates to the emergence of the web. if interested you can find it on the SSRN: http://ssrn.com/abstract=1781363

  • Zuo Ai

    I think this might turn out to be one for the WTO

  • http://chinabizgov.blogspot.com G.E. Anderson

    When I first went to China, there was no internet (or at least mere mortals had no access to it yet), and things seemed fine then. I had my trusty shortwave radio that I used to tune in the latest un-jammed frequencies of VOA, BBC, etc.
    That being said, the internet has now become so embedded in the lives of everyone and so essential to business, that we cannot afford to be without it. Unfortunately, with the direction China is headed, there could someday be two internets, one to be used inside China and another for everywhere else. (I hope it doesn’t come to that!)
    When we foreigners complain about China internet, some people delight in pointing out that China doesn’t need Google and Twitter; it has Baidu and Weibo. This is very true, but increasingly, the Chinese are only having conversations with themselves while the rest of the world gets to know each other. In the long term, this will not serve China’s development very well.
    I wasted a lot of time on my most recent trip to China just trying to check my email. I love China. I love the people. I’ve devoted most of my adult life to learning the history, language, culture and politics of China. But I’m taking my first ever trip to India later this year.
    This hindrance to business is just the push I needed to seek out opportunities elsewhere. And when China comes to its senses, I’m ready to go back.

  • jg

    I’m with G.E Anderson on this one: “In the long term, this will not serve China’s development very well.” The China as the next super power myth is showing it’s nasty, reeking slip. Next year’s regime change has thrown them into a frightful tizzy, and their true nature is now being exposed for the world to see. They are in the process of doing a controlled “shut down,” not as blinkered as the Mao era, but one that will not serve them well. They have made their move too soon (though it can convincingly be argued that any move in that direction at any time will be a wrong move). They want all the cake and they want to eat it all. It’s a recipe that will expedite what they are most afraid of: social instability. They are doing their panicky best to root out and kill the next Mao. It’s their twisted take on the Grand Inquisitor thing all over again. Their security goonishness makes them look quite like their psycho-neighbor, the DPRK, only this time they’re the DPRK w/cash. It is such the wrong road for them to take, but anyone who tells them that ends up in jail. Fear can do crazy things to those who are already quite crazy.
    China is a wonderful place, full of wonderful people who are unfortunately stuck with being ruled by paranoid freaks, and there’s no telling a paranoid to “just settle down.” To them, everyone’s the enemy. Terrible thing, really. It’s that 5,000 yr of glorious fear coming ’round again to bite them squarely in their ‘fear circuit panel.’ One day they will understand that the imperial model needs to finally be tossed. Or maybe not. So far that kind of ‘subversive’ thinking has had no influence at all.
    Is this the opening act in a return to the 1920s? Could be. I wouldn’t recommend anyone coming to China now, not businesses, students or tourists. They are just not a fit government to deal with. They’re still the criminal bumpkins who haven’t yet learned that you don’t steal the silverware. The Hu/Wen legacy will be one known as the rule by cruel little thieves who have robbed everyone, though their most traumatized victims will be the Chinese people and all the ethnic minorities who will have to suffer through the chaos that will be their future. Can’t buy them love!

  • K

    It’s been well-known among expats here that gmail has not been working properly for about 3 weeks now. However it’s mostly been an issue of access; I did not realize that some emails were not making it through.
    Despite what some have speculated, this is not a result of “damage” to the “trans-pacific cables connecting users to Google’s physical server locations in the US” due to the Japanese earthquake. In fact, problems began at least a couple of days before the earthquake. On the day of the event, which occurred at 2:45 PM, I actually went home early because Gmail had not been accessible for the last 2 DAYS, and I was unable to do any work.
    Also, we’ve found that Gmail works fairly normally through a VPN.
    …if your VPN hasn’t been blocked, that is.

  • Twofish

    David: This phenomena seems relentless—and in this light, censorship efforts almost seems futile.
    Which misses the whole point of internet censorship in China. If you know that you are being watched, then you are careful about what you say. The Chinese government really doesn’t care if people read the New York Times. What they do care about are people arranging demnstrations.
    If you know that the police could be reading your e-mail, you aren’t going to arrange demonstrations over the internet, or have your “friends” being listed on facebook or gmail. Once you are off-line then you are at a huge technology disadvantage.
    David: But there are new digital highways, roads and paths of expression and thought being constructed each and every day.
    And most of that infrastructure makes it easier for the Chinese government to do what it is doing. If people were running their mail servers in a decentralized system, then you don’t have a central target that you can monitor, whereas once everyone uses gmail, then you have a single target that you can monitor and control.
    Anderson: This is very true, but increasingly, the Chinese are only having conversations with themselves while the rest of the world gets to know each other. In the long term, this will not serve China’s development very well.’
    I don’t think that internet censorship is the main cause of this. It’s mostly a language issues. The important conversations in China take place in Chinese, just like the important conversations in the Middle East take place in Arabic, and the important conversations in Iran take place in Farsi. Language already balkanizes the internet.

  • DDW

    You can see what Google services are affected in China (and around the world) with Google’s transparency report:
    http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/traffic/?r=CN

  • Tim

    @Twofish, they may not care if you read the NYT but apparently they care if you read the Economist. For the last few weeks they have been ripping out articles on China directly from the magazine. Forget trying to watch CNN when they start talking about comparisons between China and the Middle East as well.
    Censorship here is a bit more complicated here than simply to encourage self-censorship. It’s orchestration and execution in China is fluid and changes with the government’s level of concern.

  • Chris

    Blocking access will piss many young Chinese more than you think or Dan’s article indicates. Chinese internet users are already aware they live in a Balkanized Web environment where so much is inaccessible. They are not impressed. They can accept blocks on porn, or super-sensitive political issues. However, when it’s bread and butter day-to-day services, it rams home the super paranoid state of affairs. It has a deeper impact on Chinese web users judgement of their own environment than you suggest. Within the Great Firewall, services like Sina.com employ over 500 censors in a warehouse in Wuhan to satisise user-generated content (ie Chinese internet user’s Blogs and Micro-Blogs). Weibo messages, SMS messages, Blog postings etc are all subject to random happy, happy cleanups.
    While the Chinese Web inside the Firewall does have some interesting & dynamic content, the lack of clarity on what is permissible stifles so much more potential interesting content. As a result, the Chinese Web is almost overwhelmingly commercially driven and the quality and sophistication of those commercial messages is pretty dreadful.
    The absense of a robust civil society (even in non-political areas) or robust non-profit sector where non-commercial ‘conversations’ might take place is exaccerbated online. Permissible user-generated content is restricted to happy harmonized areas such as discussions on babies or brands.
    The effort required to set up a BBS forum is a non-controversial area such as astronomy is so great that enthusiasts have given up.
    Even the more patriotic of my Chinese colleagues and friends are disturbed by the directions….
    Both the increasing restriction of access to external overseas content and the dismal happy, happy sanitised content available within China is frightening many of its citizens. The Mayor of Chongqing, BO Xilai is back to praising LEI Feng, the semi-fictitious cultural revolution icon on Chongqing TV (which has removed all commercial advertising). Let’s hope this does not indicate future directions for China’s web….

  • Ben

    For what it’s worth, gmail has worked inconsistently in Shanghai for the last week (worked @ the Hilton in the French Concession last TH and FR, worked inconsistently at the Marriott Renaissance Yu Yuan SA, and worked perfectly @ the JW in Shenzhen). Back in Shanghai today @ the Renaissance and it’s not working again. I offer this only as anecdote … but it’s frustrating to not be able to count on the connection.

  • Michael

    I had this discussion with my Chinese brother in law during my recent visit to China. He was boasting, in a light-hearted way, about how China was now way ahead of many western countries in terms of technology, computing and infrastructure. I praised the array of computers in his house, but gently pointed out that he and his family were unable to keep in touch with our family because he could not access Facebook or Flickr. I said I thought Beijing airport was one of the best in the world, but I couldn’t buy a decent English book or magazine there. And now it looks like Gmail/email in China is like the Chinese postal system. If you really want your mail to arrive, you best consign it to a trusted friend to deliver in person.

  • http://www.joyceyland.com Joyce

    I agree with Chris.
    The average Chinese is not thinking about political issues. Most people don’t care about the foreign media or broad ideas like censorship or democracy.
    But the Chinese are very practical, proud and driven. They want their email to work. They want to use the same social networking tools — Facebook, Twitter, etc. — as the rest of the world. They get frustrated because their system craps out because of some unexplained ban against the word “jasmine.” (The NYT article starts with a guy who joked “The lady doth protest too much” and then had his phone line cut. That’s just freaky).
    A know an older, apolitical Chinese guy who said he was frustrated because his overseas family all used Facebook and he couldn’t see their updates.
    I know that sounds trite — it’s not as big a deal as, say, banning a Nobel laureate’s works — but those are the daily troubles that will bother the average guy.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if China has the technical resources to crack down. They certainly have the manpower — this is a priority for them. They will spare no cost.
    But I don’t think it will ultimately work by banning seemingly random images and words, but cutting off international products and services.
    Plus, most people know that Baidu doesn’t work quite as well as Google, in the same way that domestic e-readers don’t work quite as well as Kindle (which I believe is also not allowed). And the Chinese don’t want to feel like they’re getting second-rate stuff.

  • Rich

    I have been living in China for the last year. Never had so many problems with emails as I have during these last two months.
    I run a vpn off and on throughout the day to research on google.
    During this last month, I have not receieved numerous emails on gmail and my work account as well.
    Has anyone else had problems with their other email accounts aside from gmail?

  • Thomas R

    I live in Shanghai, and maybe I’m just imagining things, but it seems like much more than gmail has slowed down/works inconsistently. A month ago I was able to download stuff at a relatively reasonable speed, but over the last 3 weeks it has become extremely difficult to do anything because of slow load times and slow download speeds.
    One small disagreement with Joyce, Google is certainly far better for English language websites, but Baidu can hold its own when it comes to Chinese language stuff (excepting censored sites and topics).

  • Nancy P.

    Fear.

  • http://www.joyceyland.com Joyce

    Thomas — I guess Baidu might be equal, if you’re only using it in Chinese, and if you aren’t looking for anything that might have been censored. Those are big “ifs.” I don’t know many Hong Kongers who use Baidu, even if they’re doing Chinese-language searches for generic topics.
    Online habits stick. If you’re used to using Google for your news (or, ahem, porn), you don’t just switch to Baidu for no reason.
    If people have access to the original, uncensored versions of Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc, why would they use the mainland copy-cat equivalents? Everyone knows Chinese only use those domestic products because the originals have been artificially pushed out of the market, either by open censorship, or state business favortism.
    I don’t use Baidu personally, but one criticism is that it has too much paid ad content mixed into search results, while Google is more “neutral.”
    I’m sure Baidu has great user-numbers, since China’s population is so huge and, like I said, people are pushed into using domestic services. But I don’t think anyone outside the mainland considers it a contender to match Google.

  • http://www.joyceyland.com Joyce

    I know HK is a small market, but I think it’s an interesting microcosm of what Chinese consumer behaviour might be if the Chinese government didn’t control the Internet. (That is also a big “if”!)
    According to Hitwise statistics, the top search engines in HK are
    1. Google HK — 34%
    2. Yahoo HK — 27%
    3. Google (Intl English version) — 16%
    4. Baidu — 5 %
    5. Google Taiwan
    So, in a place with 95% ethnic Chinese, very few chose Baidu if they aren’t pressured one way or the other, and if there is no censorship of materials.

  • Thomas R

    Joyce,
    I would never argue that Baidu is anywhere close to equal to Google anywhere outside of China or for any other language. But those are really interesting numbers. I was basing my comments off of mainland experience and friends. You could be right that given freedom of choice, most people would choose google.
    Personally, I use Google and switch to Baidu only when I can’t find something Chinese language.

  • http://www.joyceyland.com Joyce

    Thomas,
    Thanks for the nice comment. I’m glad I looked up those numbers.
    And I’m sure your Chinese is much better than mine! :)

  • nulle

    I am not surprised about this but they are doing this at their own peril. Given the globalization nature of the world (and its economy,) what they are doing now is the modern equivalent of the “Forbidden City” or “Closed China.” Basically they don’t want Joe citizen to use their brain cells in China, just obediance is fine…
    For those of you trying to access the web in China, be aware Shenzhen, HKG and Macao are different animals as they are SARs (Special Admin Regions) But you should get fairly free access in those SARs.
    I have trouble accessing CNN, BBC and ESPN last time I was in China and public radio stations from HKG was blocked…
    I wonder how feasible is it to access the internet via satellite for emails (nothing heavy duty since the UL speed stinks.) any suggestions?

  • http://healthtrakglobal.com William

    Just switched back to Yahoo after using Google for years with all its flaws. Their portal and features IMO just eclipsed Google. I hesitated at having a ‘yahoo’ email, but it’s actually easier for mainland speakers to pronounce. The Mandarin varies by tone, but is neutral in most tones, or ‘shout together’ by one interpretation. Not sure what ‘google’ means except ‘ancient’ [gu gu le].

  • http://www.joyceyland.com Joyce

    hi Nulle — It’s a good point. But Shenzhen is actually a Special Economic Zone (SEZ) not a Special Administrative Region (SAR). I know — all those confusing acronyms!
    Shenzhen operates under the same censorship as the rest of Mainland China. Sometimes, if you’re right on the border, you can get some banned sites on a smart phone, I presume because you’re actually catching a Hong Kong connection.
    But my own blog, plus the usual Facebook, etc, don’t work from a Shenzhen hotel.

  • mac

    I have just returend to HCMC, Vietnam from Chengdu in western China and could not access my emails at all, until I returned to HCMC, gues only facebook is a problem here in Vietnam
    mac

  • :-p

    “Idle hands are the devils playground” gotta keep them slaves occupied lest they rediscover their “free will” ^_-
    Its just sad that in the advancing of the human race that only under crisis situations are people really motivated to change, anything.
    I guess its all just part of the process ^_^ we’ll all get there “eventually” and when we do then we will all probably just forget any of this even happened……..

  • Back in town

    I’m just back in China from a stint in a neighbouring country. It is very frustrating to come back to experience the interference with Google services here. Gmail, Google Search, and Google Analytics are affected — but not Google Translate, presumably because Baidu doesn’t offer an alternative.
    From my personal point of view, it seems to me that at least two factors are more important here than censorship.
    First, protectionism. China is obviously trying to force people to use Chinese-based services and thus help China gradually overtake the West (especially America) — a big patriotic goal. What is most interesting is that if you try to access forbidden sites (like foreign blogs), the mandatory temporary block of Internet access is immediately lifted if you access Baidu! The intent could not be clearer: “Use Baidu and you will be saved”.
    Secondly, I think the Chinese government has it in for Google. Since Google defied China last year, China has had Google in its sights. You dare to beard the government, you can’t expect to get away scot free. I certainly would not underestimate the vindictiveness of the Chinese government.
    What is galling about all this is the utter childishness betrayed by China’s so-called “sophistication”. China seems to take a certain glee in being able to take the mickey out of arrogant foreign companies like Google, and there are plenty of “patriotic” Chinese who will regard this with great approval. (It’s pretty much the same mentality that caused people to cheer at the Sept 11 attacks or the earthquake in Japan).
    But that doesn’t inspire much respect for China as a country or confidence in a future world that is (supposedly) going to be led by China. Just because Chinese government hackers have the technical ability to harrass Google doesn’t make them into heroes. On the contrary, use of these abilities for such grubby purposes only looks juvenile, and the Chinese government’s use of them certainly isn’t fitting of a major world government. Do the powerful men who make these decisions really want their country and its government to be regarded in such a shabby light?

  • http://tinyurl.com/455lrgx Robert

    Gmail needs to get its stuff together. Not only are users IN China not getting full access, users outside of China are getting hacked and spied on. People are going to start moving away from Gmail if this continues. I know I’m thinking about it.

  • ganesh

    I am working in china i use gmail in china but now before 2-3 days in my computer can not access gmail and i am to much like gmail services.