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China’s Indigenous/Domestic Innovation Policy. Everyone Just Move Along.

Posted in China Business, Legal News

By Steve Dickinson

There has been much discussion lately about China’s domestic innovation/indigenous innovation policy. Foreign Affairs Magazine recently did an article on this entitled, “China’s Innovation Wall, setting forth the standard Western view, which is that this policy will be terrible for America. 

The standard view is wrong.

1. China’s currently conceived policy will certainly fail. If it were actually implemented, the requirement that all government purchases use Chinese technology would cripple the Chinese government. This is because Chinese domestic companies simply do not yet have sufficient technology. Moreover, if China were to eschew adopting the current international technological base, it could not “innovate” any new products. The program is therefore self-defeating.

2. The article repeats the common and outmoded complaint that China is trying to leapfrog the West by simply stealing Western technology. Of course, China will try to do this. That is what the U.S. did in the 19th century and it is what every technologically backward country does and will almost certainly continue to do. However, China is an export driven economy. To the extent China “steals” technology, the world system will shut China down.

3. The other standard complaint repeated in the article is that China is using its new innovation policy to force foreign companies to give their technology away at an unfair price. The appropriate response to this by foreign companies is to refuse to comply. 

China’s domestic innovation policy is part of a larger program initiated in 2006 designed to make China into a world power innovator in technology. The real issue in China is that this policy has been a dismal failure. There are few signs of any improvement in technological innovation in China. Chinese companies, government and educational institutions seldom innovate; they appropriate and adapt.

China remains nearly totally dependent on foreign technology. This bothers the leaders in Beijing, of course, and one response is for them to initiate ill designed policies like the domestic innovation initiative. This policy should be seen for what it is: a desperate attempt by China to force innovation through a top down directive.  

The fact is that China remains a very good market for foreign technology and this is not likely to change at any time in the near future. Over the last year, my law firm has doubled its legal work related to licensing Western technology to China and in none of those deals would it be fair to say that the Western company “gave away” its technology.

The bottom line is that for most company’s China’s domestic innovation policy can be safely ignored.

For more on China’s domestic innovation policy, check out the following:

China’s Latest Power Plays — More Unfair Trade, Now Grave Threats to Our Security,” where Leo Hindery gets all up in arms about it on the Huffington Post.

Indigenous Innovation: Determining “Our” Position,” where Scott Kennedy notes China’s “consistent pattern of … issuing unacceptable technology policies and then modifying them in the face of massive public criticism by foreign industry and government and quiet complaints from Chinese businesses with extensive foreign partnerships and pro-liberal Chinese experts.”

Report: China forcing foreign automakers to give up EV secrets?” where the Autoblog reports that the Chinese government may be forcing foreign automakers to reveal their electric vehicle technology secrets.

China’s Indigenous Innovation Policy and its effect on foreign intellectual property rights holders,” where China Law Insight analyzes the impact this policy might have on foreign company IP.

What do you think?

  • Anders

    “indigenous innovation” a.k.a 自主创新already has effected at least one sector. The Chinese windmill industry. Very few companies besides Sinovel or Goldwin get orders for government willmill projects. And it has worked in the sense that both companies are ready to become international players. The problem is that they are too succesfull in the sense that both companies have seen little or no competition inhouse, so they could be in for a surprise going international. The top down innovation model pushes companies too hard too fast.
    The tech plan from 2006 is a 15 year long plan aimed at helping the “National Champions” become “Technical Champions”. Not sure we can say if it is a succes or not just yet. One of the new words in the tech plan was 自主知识产权 (se under 八、若干重要政策和措施) which means indigenous intellectual property right. I wonder if this means that there are special “自主知识产权” and then just plain “知识产权”. If so then all 自主知识产权created by the Technical Champions should be able to overthrow any normal 知识产权. This could be a free legal license to “borrow” without giving back.

  • Twofish

    Fail at what? The Chinese government’s goal is to generate high quality jobs and economic growth so that the Communist Party stays in power. Whether China will become a scientific thought leader or get huge numbers of prizes and patents is another issue. Personally, I don’t think that this is going to happen for a while.
    Also, I think that China’s efforts will have some success because China is copying large parts of the Indian playbook here. India has some very highly restrictive laws regarding foreign ownership which ensure that most hi-tech industries in India are owned by domestic corporations, and China is looking closely at that, and copying bits that they like.
    Finally, innovation is all about trying new stuff and seeing what works and what doesn’t. One thing that kills innovative thinking is if you state in advice that something will “surely fail.” It might have a “80% chance of failure” but if you are doing new stuff, then 80% failure is pretty good odds.
    Part of the problem with talking about “Chinese policy” is that “Chinese policy” changes. People try stuff, see what happens, try different stuff, see what happens, repeat……
    Finally, it’s no longer clear what is a “Chinese company” or an “American company.” One thing that I see that may cause issues in the future is that increasingly, the big multi-national corporations are no longer “national corporations.” If you look at any major company headquartered in the US, their operations in China are run by non-American managers.
    If you have a fight between the US and Chinese governments, there’s no reason to think that a US multinational will support the US government (and increasingly there are frictions between the Chinese MNC’s and the Chinese government).
    Also, there is an element of mutually assured destruction here. The US is as dependent on China for technology and labor as China is dependent on the US. If you go into any research university or major company on Silicon Valley, you’ll see that a lot of the people there are Chinese.
    Finally, every government has to have something of an “science policy.” We do nothing and let private industry handle everything, is a policy, and sometimes a good one.

  • Twofish

    Dickinson: The real issue in China is that this policy has been a dismal failure. There are few signs of any improvement in technological innovation in China. Chinese companies, government and educational institutions seldom innovate; they appropriate and adapt.
    You really think so? I’m seeing something different.
    Also improvement is relative. From where I sit, Chinese innovation in 2010 is a lot better than in 2005, because in 2005 it was rather non-existent.
    I’m been critical of people that see “cultural factors” but one cultural factor that I do see among Americans is “short term-ism.” If something doesn’t immediately provide obviously benefits in one year or five years, it’s considered a “dismal failure.” Most non-Americans are able to think in terms of decades and centuries. What Americans tend to do is to panic about something, and after a few months, they stop panicking about topic A then the worry about topic B.
    What China is doing with science policy is what they’ve done with economic policy. Try something, if it doesn’t work, try something else, if that doesn’t work, try something else. The first few things you try are likely to be failures, but you learn from them and try again, and the important thing here is not to have a failure that is so big that you have to give up.

  • outcast

    I’d have to say after reading the following article the problems with innovation lie deep in chinese culture and way of thinking.
    http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4080137/China-chips-Bomb-or-just-a-lot-of-firecrackers-

  • Twofish

    One other point is that the massive success that the US had in creating technologies such as microchips came out of huge government investments that were triggered by the Cold War into defense and aerospace.
    Something else that matters is just getting new people. In 1900, US universities were awful at science and engineering, but the US copied the German and British university systems.
    It’s not “top-down” versus “bottom-up” but what types of top down versus what type of bottom up.
    Also saying that something is because of deep culture is pretty useless unless you have some concrete predictions. If you are the idea that there is some “Asian limit to innovation” (which personally I think is a stupid idea), then China can get at least as far as South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan, and that changes the world. If China gets as far as even the Soviet Union did in indigenous innovation, that’s a huge, huge step over where is was in 2005.

  • Ming Kai

    So how should one interpret the launch of a 15 years tech policy, favouring domestic goods and services, in the light of Chinas ongoing negotiations to join the WTO-GPA? This policy would hardly survive article three of the GPA and still it is launched one year prior to Chinas first offer to join the GPA. Im currently doing research on the subject so any thoughts would of interest.

  • Twofish

    Ming Kai: So how should one interpret the launch of a 15 years tech policy, favouring domestic goods and services, in the light of Chinas ongoing negotiations to join the WTO-GPA? This policy would hardly survive article three of the GPA and still it is launched one year prior to Chinas first offer to join the GPA.
    My interpretation would be that it means that China has given up on joining the WTO-GPA. Even if China were to open up government procurement to US/EU goods, the economic climate is hostile enough so that I can’t imagine the US/EU making any meaningful concessions.
    If the politics changes, then policy can change.

  • B. Chaudery

    @Twofish. “India has some very highly restrictive laws regarding foreign ownership which ensure that most hi-tech industries in India are owned by domestic corporations”.
    That’s not the case at all. Foreign investment in High-tech in India is most certainly encouraged. In fact Silicon Valley thrives in Bangalore, Hyderbad and elsewhere in India, there are plenty of major international corporations throughout India…IBM, Dell, Nokia and many of the global SEI-CMM Level 5 Companies have their Asian HQ’s there. You confuse the matter with the prominence of Indian companies such as Infosys and Tata Consulting etc and why that should be. It’s because they are world beaters. Why? Because India practices an open market, and Chinese companies cannot compete without State funding. Also, foreign investors choose India for hi-tech because they know China will rip them off. Foreign investors are all over the Indian IT market, in a manner they are not in China. The “restrictive laws” you talk about are a matter of total fiction.

  • greg

    B. Chaudery: “Why? Because India practices an open market, and Chinese companies cannot compete without State funding”
    This is one of the myths that I keep hearing from Indian commentators. That somehow China is a state-driven economy while India is free-wheeling, creative entrepreneurs driven economy. Nothing is farther from truth. China’s economic success is due to both government’s policy and the hard-working, entrepreneurial Chinese (11 of the world’s top-20 richest, self-made women billionaires are Chinese in China, according to the latest report). China’s market, overall, is much more open than Japan, Korea and certainly India.
    Almost all of the hi-tech companies you mentioned also have large operations in China, and more importantly are there for the Chinese market, not just outsourcing type of work.
    To say Chinese companies can not compete without state support is just ridiculous. Let’s take IT industry, India’s proudest industry. Huawei’s revenue alone is close to India’s top-5 outsourcing IT companies combined, and Huawei is in a hi-tech industry whose products are mostly software-based and gets the majority of its revenue from international market. It tops the list of companies with most patents granted last year in the world. Furthermore, despite much talk of India’s IT industry, China’s IT industry is actually much larger than India’s. The main difference between India’s and China’s IT industries is that China’s IT industry is not outsourcing focused. India does not any equivalent of Baidu, Tencent and Alibaba, for example, which focus on their own end-products, services and customers. These companies have among the world’s largest users/customers and highest market-cap among the world’s IT companies. Baidu is the second largest internet search company after Google; Tencent as a social networking company has as many users as Facebook; Alibaba dominates the B2B space with expansion in Japan and the US. Imagine the technology challenges that these companes have to deal with given the scale and scope of their businesses.
    I’m not trying to minimize the achievements of India’s top IT outsourcing companies or its IT industry. In a developing country with small domestic market, India’s outsourcing industry is a miracle in itself and India and Indians rightly should feel proud of it. Even though China also promotes IT outsourcing industry, I don’t think China can match India due mainly to language barrier and India’s head-start. But China has a thriving IT industry and, if it had to choose, serving the large and growing domestic market is much more preferable than being outsourcing vendors to foreign companies.

  • NM

    “The other standard complaint repeated in the article is that China is using its new innovation policy to force foreign companies to give their technology away at an unfair price.”
    This seems a bizarre complaint. How would one know whether the price is “unfair”? Presumably, the price in techno transfer is either set at a level that is acceptable to foreign firms, because they [think they] will still make a profit after paying this price/opportunity cost, in which case they will presumably do the ‘deal’ in question, or the price is set at a level where this cost exceeds their expected gain from doing the particular business in question in China, in which case they will walk away. So easy.

  • ouyang

    I would imagine that rushing innovation, like everything else in China does in this manner, will produce a low-quality product. It may literally “cripple” things as well.

  • Twofish

    Chaudery: n fact Silicon Valley thrives in Bangalore, Hyderbad and elsewhere in India, there are plenty of major international corporations throughout India…IBM, Dell, Nokia and many of the global SEI-CMM Level 5 Companies have their Asian HQ’s there.
    Right, and they they were let in after you had well established local India companies already set up as a result of the pre-1991 restrictions on investments. One reason that foreign companies focus on high technology in India is that more or less out of historical accident, the high technology sector ended up being less restricted than manufacturing.
    India and China have radically different economies and strategies. However, in the case of any multinational company is that you end up putting different parts of the operations in different countries. I don’t know of any multinational that *isn’t* in either both India and China.
    Chaudery: Because India practices an open market, and Chinese companies cannot compete without State funding.
    The larger Chinese companies are state-owned, but the Party-State has no interest in subsidizing Chinese companies out of state funds, and companies that require long term state funding get shut down. The Communist Party acts as a profit-making share holder in the state-owned enterprises and managers are promoted on their ability to make a profit. They do this because it is the intention that the SOE’s add to the national treasury rather than take away from it. The Party is forced to do this because if you keep taking money from the treasury, then eventually you run out.
    The general problem in this sort of system is that you end up with companies that make a profit based on political influence, but China has dealt with this by splitting up an industry into competing large companies, all with relatively equal levels of political influence.
    As far as how this fits with new industries, people are trying to figure it out right now. My guess is that things will evolve into the Lenovo model in which people are encouraged to create small companies with new technology, but after it reaches a certain size it gets bought out by the state.
    Finally, it’s impossible to have no policy. Any government has to make some basic decisions (or non-decisions) regarding economic policy. Do nothing is a decision and a policy.

  • Nazerath

    I agree with you. If Western companies are worried about selling their IP to China, they have one really easy solution: don’t sell it.

  • Anci

    My company is engaged in pollution clean up using technologies far beyond what China has. I understand that Chinese governments are not supposed to use us, but since they have no choice, they are and that goes with what you are saying.

  • Twofish

    What companies really need to worry about is that the most important IP that a company has, happens to have legs and can walk out and if the working conditions are no good.

  • outcast

    “One other point is that the massive success that the US had in creating technologies such as microchips came out of huge government investments that were triggered by the Cold War into defense and aerospace. ”
    Not entirely true. Semiconductors often did find their way into military applications, though what really has been driving them has been consumer electronics, especially computers. The success of Intel and numerous other american semiconductor companies is proof of that, and most of it was done with little to no government support. Most chinese semiconductor companies on the other hand are just one hit wonders, they come out with one good product and then fail to follow up with anything noteworthy, merely producing me too products that add no value. If they aren’t adding value to their designs and investing in R&D, how can they expect to succeed?

  • B. Chaudery

    @Twofish: All you do is whatever is said, ignore it and try and coming up with a scheme to justify your own position. There are no restrictive laws in place in India concerning hi-tech companies as you said there were. I point out that’s incorrect, yet you still continue to provide many theories as to why it is so in India. You have like an Ostrich, your head in the sand. Despite all evidence and meaningful comments, you try to fit your own point of view into any debating point, even when you contradict yourself.

  • Twofish

    outcast: Not entirely true. Semiconductors often did find their way into military applications, though what really has been driving them has been consumer electronics, especially computers.
    True, after the 1970′s, but the initial investment that went into Silicon Valley involved heavy amounts of government funding into major universities like MIT and Stanford. A lot of research today is also ultimately government funded either directly through DARPA and NSF or indirectly in the form of student loans. I come from the world of big and expensive science, and the major universities work very closely with the government.
    outcast: The success of Intel and numerous other american semiconductor companies is proof of that, and most of it was done with little to no government support.
    I’d really have to say is that there is a *HUGE* amount of US government support in science and technology. Most of it is indirect. You have government spending that funds the universities, national labs, and some of the major defense contractors, and eventually some of that makes it into for-profit companies that productize them. It’s an entire ecosystem. Fascinating to watch up close.
    One thing that the US doesn’t do in general is to fund companies directly for R&D, but the US industrial infrastructure is different from China, and there may be more than one way to catch mice.
    outcast: Most chinese semiconductor companies on the other hand are just one hit wonders, they come out with one good product and then fail to follow up with anything noteworthy, merely producing me too products that add no value. If they aren’t adding value to their designs and investing in R&D, how can they expect to succeed?
    You have to start somewhere. One thing that makes Silicon Valley a success is that there are lots of “also-rans”. For every Google or Intel, there are dozens of companies that go nowhere. Wh
    Chauery: You have like an Ostrich, your head in the sand. Despite all evidence and meaningful comments, you try to fit your own point of view into any debating point, even when you contradict yourself.
    My point of view involves things that I’ve seen personally, and I may have opinions that surprise people. I have a life outside of the internet, and a lot of what I have seen personally influences my beliefs. For example, I’m just not going to believe that the US government doesn’t provide massive support to science and technology development in the US, because I’ve seen different with my own eyes.
    There are some thing that India does a *LOT* better than China. In general, India is a lot better at software and high tech hardware design than China is.
    OK. Now what? One thing about ecosystems is that they are hard to carbon copy.

  • http://nz.linkedin.com/in/drllau drllau

    ChinaHearsay observes that it is the economic calculus of different companies whether they want to contribute their IP or walk away.
    http://www.chinahearsay.com/chinas-industrial-policy-resistance-is-futile-peugeot-strikes-back/

  • http://chinatakeaway.blogspot.com Riccardo

    During my previous stay in Beijing I have personally witnessed – while interning at the EU Delegation in the Trade and Investment section, IP Department – what the events of a “scary” Circular on Indigenous Innovation and Government Procurement lead to, in late November 2009 (circular n° 618 dated November, 17th 2009, issued by the Minister of Science and Technology (MOST), the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) and the Ministry of Finance (MOF) which invited Chinese enterprises to send applications to be recorded in a Catalogue of Indigenous Innovation Products).
    Tension was high within the walls and on the telephone lines as well as in the tone of emails. Less tension than watching ‘All The President’s Men’ with Dustin Hoffmann and Robert Redford, but close enough to understand what makes a federal case. . . a federal case!
    And, man, it looked serious. In the end, about a month later, following confidential letters and more or less open comments from Ambassadors, Heads of Industry, Commissioners from Europe, Chiefs from the USA-CTR and Japanese institutions, the , the Minister of Science and Technology referred to the case as being a mis-translation and the case was dismissed by the Chinese authorities; the Circular had no longer effect. But something was making most of the players uptight already.
    With colleagues, the most frequent statements over this period since then were:
    a) they can’t be serious
    b) they can’t be that stupid
    c) nice try, and
    d) did we miss something? (i.e. did we go stupid?)
    I am adding a fifth comment, a more subtle one: What did it mean? Really. Is there a hidden message, is it a rookie attempt or a sophisticated strategy to keep us talking about it until, say, right now?
    For this sake, this morning, I’ve attended the EUChina Chamber of Commerce and British Chamber of Commerce’s event presenting Mr. Jim McGregor and who gave an outline of the problem at this stage, and, quoting the title of the conference “what it represents for foreign enterprises” (and for promoting his critically acclaimed book “One Billion Customers: Lessons from the Front Lines of Doing Business in China, which I will sooner or later have to read).
    Now, the fact that Mr. McGregror dealt with the obviously more articulated matter in a hasty manner was certainly because of time shortage and not so challenging Q&As. It doesn’t really matter; because that’s how you get more reading material, that’s how you are challenged to write and think about it more actively (and meet more people).
    From the November-2009-scare, most activities for the Indigenous Innovation concern have been dealt with, from a governmental perspective, acting also and most importantly on behalf of industry associations and Western trade experts. But the gray zone remains wide: why did they do that in the first place?
    And the persistent talks about it make me fear there is more ahead to come, not necessarily to worry about; not if we play ball and teach them some tricks as well. Just to remain afloat or make it a really more challenging economy? I am worried that we over worry. China is clearly not going to close the doors on us [on our exportations] although a feeling similar to that of being locked out spreads across the rooms: as the speaker points out, there are fabulous R&D centers, labs and well-wired experts in China, but no where to go if they have no expertise (aka foreign tech?).
    Are the licensing agreements not enough? Is contractual international law too slow in the race with the daily scene?
    Shall the laws of international trade become stricter on procurement? What if that cripples our industries in a crunch of sticky provisions?
    Why – and I take this example directly from Mr. McGregor’s speech – do countries (the US) refrain from allowing Chinese companies to acquire portions of American industries while the latter require China to open up to investments from the USA? [“example: China can buy Volvo but hey, no! China cannot buy 20% of a petrol company in the US!” of course they’ll stay put from investing in the US and the stars and striped will go jobless and fuel some cheap mid term candidacy talk as of now].
    And who should get down and dirty?
    Governments alone?
    Cooperation programs alone?
    Industries alone?
    Or all concerted?
    Should the CEOs visiting China, as hinted by Mr. McGregor, dwell on the issue? These very CEOs of gigantic money-making companies, should they, who are short-term appointed dealmakers rather than peace-keeping forces for the economy or from diplomatic entities, step up (quoting a brilliant remark by another colleague present today)?
    What kind of balance should be struggled for?
    A legal battle for more TRIPS abiding behaviors?
    That only? – Is it strictly an IP-thing?
    A political battle to force the Chinese lawmakers to dial it down a few notches and allow us to catch up?
    A B2B duel, to obtain a case-by-case level of technology sharing and market sharing?
    Much remains unsolved.
    Waiting for another November to show its cards.

  • outcast

    “I’d really have to say is that there is a *HUGE* amount of US government support in science and technology. Most of it is indirect. You have government spending that funds the universities, national labs, and some of the major defense contractors, and eventually some of that makes it into for-profit companies that productize them. It’s an entire ecosystem. Fascinating to watch up close.
    One thing that the US doesn’t do in general is to fund companies directly for R&D, but the US industrial infrastructure is different from China, and there may be more than one way to catch mice.”
    Intel’s annual sales are $32 billion a year, all of the research it does is funded by itself. You’re right in that the US industrial infrastructure is different from China, but the difference is that US industries usually produce what was designed in the US. It’s entirely driven by indigenous IP. In China only a tiny percentage of what is manufactured is based on anything designed locally. According to the founder of TSMC, China uses 1/3 of all the chips produced in the world, but of all the designs in the world only 1% is actually designed in China. That’s a gaping disparity the size of the grand canyon.
    “You have to start somewhere. One thing that makes Silicon Valley a success is that there are lots of “also-rans”. For every Google or Intel, there are dozens of companies that go nowhere. Wh”
    The difference is that in the US those companies are allowed to fail, often in China the government will keept them on life support. The fact is, most chinese tech companies don’t invest in R&D anywhere near to the degree equivilent sized American companies do.

  • Twofish

    outcast: Intel’s annual sales are $32 billion a year, all of the research it does is funded by itself.
    Hardly true.
    Intel has a lot of industrial liasion programs with the major research universities and national laboratories, so that a lot of the basic research in those universities and national laboratories get moved back into Intel. The government doesn’t directly pay Intel to do research, but there is a lot of indirect collaboration going on.
    That’s not even counting the fact that most of the engineers in Intel have benefited from Federal research grants and student loans. Also Intel does get tax rebates from local governments.
    outcast: . In China only a tiny percentage of what is manufactured is based on anything designed locally. According to the founder of TSMC, China uses 1/3 of all the chips produced in the world, but of all the designs in the world only 1% is actually designed in China. That’s a gaping disparity the size of the grand canyon.
    Correct, and India does a much better job than China at promote indigenous high technology. If you argue that China *doesn’t* produce indigenous semiconductor designs, that’s one thing. If you argue that China *can’t* produce indigenous technology, that’s another. One reason that I sort of doubt the latter is true is that a lot of Chinese work for Intel.
    outcast: The difference is that in the US those companies are allowed to fail, often in China the government will keep them on life support.
    Name three examples of a SME that the Chinese government has kept on life support.
    The Chinese government *will* bail out the largest SOE’s for the same sorts of reasons that the US government bailed out the banks and GM, but SME’s, even local government sponsored ones, are sink or swim. The thing about the smaller Chinese companies is that they are state-owned but they are owned by provincial or local governments which can’t print money or easily raise taxes.
    outcast: The fact is, most chinese tech companies don’t invest in R&D anywhere near to the degree equivilent sized American companies do.
    True, but that’s because Chinese companies tend to be in the low margin part of the business and they don’t have the profits for a large R&D effort.

  • Twofish

    Also if you want the gory details about how the US government supports the semiconductor industry, see…..
    http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=10677
    Part of the issue is that you really eventually want government support to be an investment and not a continuing subsidy. IMHO, the goal should be that eventually, the companies that you help in the form of startups be able to survive without capital inputs and that the government gets back its investment in the form of taxes. Structuring things so that happens is really complex.
    The fact that Intel can self-sustain a lot of internal R&D *now*, shouldn’t obscure the fact that it took quite a bit of government support to get Intel to that point, and that Intel has benefited a lot from DARPA and SEMATECH.
    I should point out that one of the most important decisions with long term benefit to China’s science infrastructure was made in the late-1970′s when Deng Xiaoping started to let Chinese students study overseas and emigrate to the US. At the time, this was rather controversial because it was seen was creating a “brain drain.” One of the supporters of the policy was Zhao Ziyang who called this “storing brains.” The problem is that if kept all of the people in China, there just weren’t the jobs that you needed to keep them doing someone useful, so it’s better to let everyone go to the US for grad school, get a job at Intel, and then come back whenever the situation changes, which is happening now.

  • outcast

    “True, but that’s because Chinese companies tend to be in the low margin part of the business and they don’t have the profits for a large R&D effort”
    They are in the low margin part of the business because that is the only way they know how to compete. A simple, innovative DSP for example doesn’t require anywhere near the investment as something like the Pentium did, by several orders of magnitude. Chinese managers with very few exceptions have repeatedly demonstrated a complete lack of long term strategic thinking, they are in this to enrich themselves as fast as possible, long term business viability be damned. Anyone who has done business in China, regardless of industry knows this. That is the root of the problem.
    And frankly, in technology if you dont innovate you’re essentially a dead duck. Companies can only prosper if they add value to their products, something that isn’t happening in China. If you’re going to produce a chip that has the same functionality as your competitor’s chip, if it is able to do it in a better way (faster, more efficient, etc), then that is adding value and is competitive, otherwise it is just one of a number of me too products with little real value.
    I’m also going to state that before Intel become the massive success it is now, when it was developing its first processors it actually had a big disadvantage relative to modern chinese design houses in that it also had to maintain its own proprietary foundry. Back in the 70′s pure play foundries like TSMC didn’t exist, so any IC design house had to have their own foundry operation. Foundries are expensive and it took resources away from product R&D efforts, but despite that they essentially invented the modern microprocessor. So I really dont buy the “they dont have money” arguement.