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Chinese Science Rising. There Will Be Innovation.

Posted in China Business, Recommended Reading

I went to a dinner the other day, attended by a neighbor who is one of the world’s foremost experts in some niche area related to cleaning up land sites contaminated by oil. We got to talking about China and he talked of how “about half” the published scientific material he is seeing these days comes from China. I made some comment about quantity not quality, and he immediately shot me down, saying that what he was reading from Chinese scientists was as good as what he was reading from non-Chinese scientists.  He then told me of a professor friend of his in some other niche scientific area who had just been saying how in his area Chinese scientists were doing about 50% of the leading research.

I was somewhat stunned because this goes against the old bromide that we cannot expect innovation in China.  

China is doing whatever it can to improve its scientific research and it seems to be working. A recent article, ”The Spark Rises in the East,” by Michael Brooks, (h/t China Challenges) talks of how China “could soon lead the world in scientific research,” due in large part to Chinese government funding/encouragement:

Science is rising in the east. China’s strategies for economic development, which are centred on creating a world-beating science base, don’t sound like much. They go by odd names: the 863 Programme and Project 211, for instance, and the Torch and Spark programmes. But they are proving to be more powerful than even the Chinese government could have hoped.

Last year, following a decade of phenomenal growth, China became the second-biggest producer of scientific knowledge in the world. In 1998, Chinese scientists published about 20,000 articles. In 2009, they produced more than 120,000. Only the US turns out more.

According to figures released this year by the US National Science Foundation, there are now as many researchers working in China as there are working in the US or the EU. The state is encouraging Chinese scientists trained in the west to return home, offering them enormous salaries and access to world-class laboratories. In 2008, for example, the molecular biologist Yigong Shi, one of Princeton University’s rising stars, walked away from a $10m research grant to set up a lab at Tsinghua University in Beijing. In January, the Chinese equivalent of the US National Institutes of Health was unveiled with £150m in its pockets, which will be distributed to new medical research projects.

China’s rise in science is already impacting the West.  

Canny European and North American scientists are already reaching out to China. The number of east-west collaborations has doubled in the past five years and organisations such as the UK Research Councils, the British Council and the US National Science Foundation have made brokering such partnerships a priority.

According to Rainer Spurzem, an astronomer at the University of Heidelberg in Germany and the National Astronomical Observatories of China, collaboration with Chinese research­ers is important because science in China is growing so fast. Not to pull these scientists into the international research effort “would be a loss for all sides”, says Spurzem.

Those who don’t collaborate with their Chinese peers risk becoming second-rate. Given the sheer volume of Chinese researchers, they will come to dominate various fields; only through collaboration will western scientists know what is going on behind the scenes. “If you’ve missed out on the background thinking behind published papers, you don’t know what was tried and dropped,” Adams says.

Though China is doing the right things on funding, it still has room for improvement when it comes to “attitude, atmosphere, synergy, culture.” According to various scientists, “the western tradition embraces adversarial debate, while the eastern approach is characterised by Confucianism’s search for harmony:” 

If China is serious about conquering the world of science, its culture will have to change, Wang says, because the less hierarchical western tradition produces better results. “At the moment, when a well-respected senior scientist gives a seminar in China, you don’t often see junior scientists stand up and criticise the ideas,” he says. But this is how scientists make progress. “In science, by its very nature, young people come up with new ideas; one generation passes another. This is something that the Chinese need to achieve.”

The article goes on to note how Western and Chinese scientists can benefit from the other:

[T]here are upsides to the differences between east and west. Chinese scientists will bring a fresh approach to western research. “The analysis of a problem, what they think of as the most interesting element and the tools they use will be an important part of development of some fields,” Adams says. In the short term, however, great innovation is unlikely. For the next few years, China’s dominance will be most visible in areas related to its economic well-being.

Is what is true of pure science also becoming true of product innovation?  What do you think?

  • http://www.liquidassetdevelopment.com Greg

    Sadly, innovation in the US is either driven by pure university research or purely for the benefit of the US Fortune 100. Especially with the lack of funding from scared investors and banks hoarding cash (and often lending overseas).
    Seed money for startups in the US is nearly non-existent and you can use funding presentations as an indicator. People are throwing in the towel and so there aren’t as many presenters at these events.

  • wk

    I graduated from a top Chinese university in 2001 and came to US for PHD study after that. I can confirm that there has been a notable increase of Chinese scientific publications, especially the last few years. What’s quite funny to me is that almost a third of FDA researchers working in DC are now Chinese.

  • Twofish

    Chinese have always been doing world-class research. However, up until very recently, they have been doing that research in the United States, and US research universities have been dependent on importing Chinese graduate students. If you go into any US university, you’ll find that extremely few of the graduate students are local. Part of the reason is that science and math are not very highly valued in the United States, and there are not very many attractive jobs in academia for people with science and math training, so you have astrophysicists ending up working on Wall Street.
    What is happening is that the general standard of living in China and the politics of immigration have changed so that Chinese graduate students are more and more likely to end up back in China rather than working in the United States. The big thing that I think the US should be worried about is if the situation in China improves to the point that Chinese graduate students decide to bypass the United States altogether.
    Also science *does* require gladiatorial contests, but this isn’t a Western/Eastern thing. In physics, you have have two people screaming at each other one moment, and then the next moment they are eating lunch. However, this sort of culture doesn’t carry itself well to most business contexts in which asking pointed questions is sometimes considered insulting, or to educational contexts. Science is also a lot more hierarchical than it first appears. You do get into gladiatorial contests, but there are a lot of rules.

  • Twofish

    Something that is important to realize is that globalization means rethinking certain assumptions. What we are really talking about is “Science in China” and not “Chinese science.” There is a lot of Chinese science, but most of it happens in the United States, and if you look at the number of papers from US universities, you’ll find that a huge fraction of it is done by Chinese scientists.
    One fundamental problem is that the United States treats scientists and mathematicians like dirt. Science and mathematics has extremely low status in the United States and this results a lot from the lack of jobs and salaries for scientists and mathematicians. One thing that I hope that China does is to “pull a Sputnik”. If China starts attracting scientists by less bad treatment, I hope the US will react.

  • http://www.qualityinspection.org Renaud

    Innovations often come from connections and exchanges of ideas (see http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_johnson_where_good_ideas_come_from.html).
    I would compare an academic paper to an athletic performance in the Olympics, and a real innovation to the constitution of a good soccer team for the World Cup. It comes back to an earlier discussion on this same blog…

  • Andy

    It’s not a question of innovation – it’s a question of whether the innovation will be effectively harnessed and developed, and that requires effective and transparent laws, effective private funding (public funding only gets you halfway there), and yes, a culture of open debate. China is somewhere between the former USSR and the US – the Soviet Union had great basic science, but of course, communism prevented useful products to be developed. I disagree that it’s the “Confucian search for harmony” that prevents innovation – arguably, Japan has an even more conformist society, and they are able to innovate, although not to the extent of the US.

  • outcast

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2010/0830/Attack-on-China-whistleblower-shows-risk-of-unveiling-corruption-fraud
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LA21Ad01.html
    http://shanghaiist.com/2010/09/17/new_humanist_lies_damn_lies_and_chi.php
    Appearently not. The biggest problem is chinese people have a far below average understanding of science and more importantly how to use it properly. It’s no accident that the only published papers positively showing how effective accupunture have come from China. Of course Chinese scientists do well in the US, but that’s because the American scientific establishment isn’t infested with corruption, superstitions, and backward chinese culture. As long as that remains this way, China will never be a true scientific power.
    “I disagree that it’s the “Confucian search for harmony” that prevents innovation – arguably, Japan has an even more conformist society, and they are able to innovate, although not to the extent of the US.”
    Actually Japan is the proof that confucian harmony does impede innovation. Compared to other developed nations of comparable size, especially Germany, the amount of nobel prizes awarded to Japanese scientists has been decided less. Looking at technologies, exactly what technology has been invented by Japanese? The Ruby programming language, but that’s about it. When it comes to economics, when you hear their economists talking, it’s like a time warp back to the 40′s. So many of Japan’s social and economic problems were because Japan could not and would not change to meet a changing world. Women are still second class citizens, suicides are the highest in the developed world, the economy is still a wreck even after 19 years of “economic mobilization” and massive government overspending. That’s right, 19 years of doing the same thing over and over with the same bad results. That is ultimately the confucian legacy.

  • http://www.liquidassetdevelopment.com Greg

    What has hurt the US in science is the focus and obsession with business and finance careers. Science jobs pay crap and often production oriented…by MBAs who have never had the knowledge and have proven not to have the ethics.

  • http://nz.linkedin.com/in/drllau drlawrencelau

    The observation about a different view of things is pertinent … this is like Asian fusion, the cooking style combining western techniques with eastern ingredients … you get a different dish altogether. The chinese often challenge western conventions, or the business prevalent logic. The example is Haier finding their washing machines being clogged up with dirt and found out farmers using their machines for cleaning vegetales. The germans would engineer a filter, the Americans market a vegetable accessory. but the chinese added a vegetable rinse cycle.
    The question about science being adversarial I’ve quibbles about … The European model of law is inquisitional and coexists with Anglo-Saxon adversarial model in the world. Yes you do need insight into a problem but you also need consensus in forming the new world view (see the principles of scientific revolution where superior models of thought overcome prior). Keep in mind that the chinese culture is high context, even though might not contradict superiors in public, private conversations may be different. Where the chinese have advantage is sheer numbers … I’ve seen insttutes dedicated to just one focus (eg aircraft) engineering). Where the biggest weakness is IMHO is the connection between science and business which is where silicon valley had the advantage (built from post-WW2 radar research).
    BTW, the claim that Japan had no innovation is overlooking the sustaining innovations in microelectronics process. Perhaps we prize the lone scientist/engineer fighting against the odds (Edison, Bell, Dunlop) ignoring the supporting cast of characters.

  • outcast

    “BTW, the claim that Japan had no innovation is overlooking the sustaining innovations in microelectronics process. Perhaps we prize the lone scientist/engineer fighting against the odds (Edison, Bell, Dunlop) ignoring the supporting cast of characters”
    And what innovations would those be?
    It’s worth mentioning that even in terms of semiconductors Japan is well into a major decline as well. In 1989, 6 of the top 10 companies measured by sales were Japanese, today only 3 are.

  • Kevin

    “Research that comes from China” and “Chinese scientists” are completely different things, as Twofish has already said. My field is pretty much dominated by Chinese scientists, but almost all of them are working in the UK or US.
    I worked with one of the exceptions for a while – he made his name in the UK but the Chinese government encouraged him to come back to Tsinghua with much more funding, just like the Princeton biologist mentioned in the original post. The promises turned out to be greatly exaggerated and he had to spend most of his time on internal politics rather than research, so he was back in the West within 3 years.

  • Andy

    @outcast – the last link you posted says: “Most Chinese people’s attitudes to science are superstitious and fearful.” Um, most American’s attitudes to science are superstitious and fearful. What was the percent of Americans who believed the Earth is 10,000 years old, taking the Bible literally? The battle that science has to wage all over the world is continuous, and tragic in some cases. May parents refused to vaccinate their kids when every scientific study showed no link with thermisol and autism.

  • outcast

    The difference is that local superstitious attitudes haven’t infiltrated the scientific establishment in America (yet). They did in China.

  • michaelp

    I work in medical science and I am just not seeing this. Chinese medical research output is still miniscule compared to the US, at least in terms of good quality peer-reviewed medical studies. The gold standard for medical science is the Cochrane Library of sytematic reviews – I would be amazed if China accounted for even 5% of studies being included in the Cochrane reviews.
    China is starting from a low base, so growth may appear to be high, but in absolute terms it is still a small player, probably not even on the same level as a country like Italy. And you only have to look at the attacks on skeptics such as Fang Zhouzi to see that the integrity of Chinese science still has a long way to go.

  • Twofish

    I’m in astrophysics and computer science, and the people that are coming out of Tsinghua and Beida are as good as people in the US. One thing that is very different in medicine and physics is that there is such a thing as “traditional Chinese medicine” whereas there isn’t such a thing as “traditional Chinese physics” or “traditional Chinese computer science.” Astrophysics and computer science are one area in which things are pretty global. Also big money physics and high performance computer science are things in which massive state-sponsored bureaucracies are good at, since a lot of it involves getting someone to spend $$$$$ on something.
    If you are a senior scientist in astrophysics, you are going to be spending a large fraction of your time in Washington DC lobbying for funding.

  • Dan (a different Dan)

    Well, regarding Fan Zhouzi and other skeptics, if you all read closely, they do tend to go after the cases which are more obvious. As in people with little or no scientific background can tell the material is questionable, if they take just a little time to think about it. No doubt, these men are important for the sake of building credibility and quality of research.
    The only way I can describe science in Asia compared with the US or Europe is that it’s not as mature. BTW, you all need to be clear on what science (knowledge of the natural world) is as opposed to engineering (to build) or what the business world calls innovation. They do mean different things, although it’s all interconnected.
    A lot of what people consider as accomplishments are relative. The number of patents, Nobel prizes, grants awarded, etc. They’re important to a certain extent but not the only measurement of quality. A lot of times, many people and organizations do not get the credit or any benefits from their work. An experience shared by many people, not just in science.
    Twofish does have a point here regarding how this field works in general. Contrary to what many people believe, you don’t really debate like a tv court case, it’s more like discussions that articulate the topic studied. Skepticism is produced when the experiment or results can’t be repeated or understood within pre-existing knowledge. It is very bureaucratic and to be honest, I really do not think the culture argument can be use as the biggest issue or the only obstacle. Fighting for funds and conforming to special interests is just as damaging, if not more so as all the complaints regarding the corruption, traditions and superstitions in Asia. There’s already enough problems without the culture argument. There were so many ideas discovered and created decades ago in the US and other developed nations, but wasn’t applied or even studied until recently because of such issues.

  • Dan (a different Dan)

    One very quick comment to add here.
    Although the progress of science correlates with economic well-being, it’s really hard to make that the final judgement. To make a good product and sell it involves many factors.
    What people should really be looking at, as mention by this post and other comments, is the exchanges and relationship between the Sea turtles, the overseas Chinese scientists/engineers/entrepreneurs that stayed in their adopted countries, and the networks being established between China and institutions throughout the world. Even though it’s obvious what new discoveries or innovations can be produce with such activities, the other reason I want to mention this is because it’s another way to project soft power for China and any other country. The world is going to be deeply integrated sooner or later, however I do think this network will create many opportunities to influence many areas beyond Academia and Economy.
    In some circles, some people are saying to forgo publishing in the Chinese language and stick with English to help improved credibility and introduced more places for Chinese scientists to make their work known. I can see where it might be helpful but I really hope that doesn’t happen to all the subjects, at least not with certain topics like history or archeology.

  • Dan (a different Dan)

    This will hopefully be the last comment I make. It’s a topic I’m pretty interested in and discuss with others quite a bit.
    You all can make a good assessment of the quality of research in a certain place by doing these few things. A few things I learned when I went to school.
    1.) Try to understand the material of any scientific article you’re reading. Or find someone in that particular niche or a very good instructor to explain it. Those people can help interpret what it means for those outside the field, relatively speaking. They can also tell you what type of equipment and expertise might be required to perform those experiments and obtained such a publishing. Thus, this is one aspect you can use to know the quality of research of that place.
    2.) Researchers of any area, science or non, are part of a large community. They not only have to read articles but also meet up one another to update their knowledge. Attending conferences, seminars or any gathering where you can see and converse with people. This is probably one of the best ways to know how decent research from a particular place, by actually meeting the people and talking to them. Personal experiences are one of a kind.
    3.) This might be tricky for a lot of people, but one way to confirm quality is to actually go visit the place, the lab or institution where research is conducted. Go as a student, visiting scholar, alumni, donor or curious individual. Sometimes, you won’t get to see everything because some projects are complex and they’re technically in competition with another institute for various reasons. However, by actually going and seeing the place for yourself, this would be a very good measurement of quality or potential.
    These are a few things anyone can try, rather than just reading short articles or hearing what others are saying. Not everyone has a science career, so it’s pretty hard for many people to know whether or not what other people are saying regarding research or the quality of it has substance.

  • Jim

    Got in on this discussion late, but I’ve been editing science and medical research articles in China for years from good hospitals, institutes and universities. I don’t see a lot of innovation coming out of China. The papers are not ground-breaking; they build on previous research, which is important but not very innovative.
    The causes: 1) Consider that doctors in good hospitals are expected to produce and publish 1 research paper per year on top of a case load that already exceeds the average U.S. doctors’ case load. Promotions and salary are very much based on the number of publications, not on quality of patient care; 2) The time required to do real innovative research is not as available to Chinese researchers because their grants and promotions are based largely on the quantity of articles published. Often less knowledgeable government officials set these targets, and the scientists, if they want to make money, need to comply; 3) Too much money is accruing to corrupt Chinese government officials who make these decisions.

  • http://englishproper.blogspot.com/ docG

    Chinese scientists may be doing excellent research, but a great many struggle with English, which has become the lingua franca for scientific publication worldwide. I have recently initiated a blog to assist such writers with their English. It’s called
    “English Proper,” and can be found here: http://englishproper.blogspot.com/ Readers are encouraged to submit brief passages from their work for review and, if necessary, correction.