China Law Blog

I'm surprised Johannesburg didn't make it on to the list - maybe being a crime capital isn't one of the criteria.
And to all SA's - I know it's not as bad as it used to be; but it's still far from ideal.

Sounds like the writer got the info from a travel guide from about 8 years ago, thinking not much has changed.

It happens a lot in the west, many of the people I meet in the US have hung on to their perception of China from 30 years ago or more. Even more surprising is that those that have been to China only for short trips, they come back and their attitudes are only marginally changed.

Lists like that are an embarrassment for the cities involved and a slap in the face to intelligent readers, frankly.

Beyond a list that suggests questionable methodology, I wonder how they can say that Budapest and Prague are no longer worthy of being considered "hardship" locales due to their improvement, but Suzhou and Bogota aren't given credit for theirs?

Most of the time the urge to number and rank things ought to be resisted. I'd say the large amount of comments to the article are a good indication of the state of "reporting" in many newspapers these days; the idea is to attract readers with silly, comment-generating lists and sensation and not good writing.

Suzhou and Bogota are worse than Cairo in terms of sanitation? They let pigs and goats loose in Cairo so that the animals will help consume the mountains of rubbish on the streets. I mean, come on.

Business Weak, meh.

There are at least a thousand cities worse than Quangzhou, Tianjian etc. in China. Where are they ? Yes, they are less populous than Quangzhou, etc., but would have a much greater population than, say, Lagos.

"a travel guide from about 8 years ago"

Most of the complaint about Chinese cities is "pollution". And pollution wasn't too bad 8 years ago. It started when the country "opened and developed" and getting to the point when Chinese government acknowledge the slight problem recently. So it was not old information. Maybe they should use data 20 years ago and Chinese cities would be extremely clean and livable.

I'm not surprised about a lot of those places, although I too question some of its methodology. Given that Indian cities all have significantly inferior infrastructure, hordes of beggars, and the biggest slums in the world it is little wonder they made it to the list. My friends from Australia called having stomach problems "Dehli Belly" for a reason.....

As someone who lived in Guangzhou for 3 years, I acknowledge the pollution - the air is not clean. But Guangzhou has a lot of positives for expats and as a place to do business. Relatively efficient and honest government, modern infrastructure and facilities, a cosmopolitan trading culture, a 'can do' attitude by suppliers and service businesses, great food and cultural events, a friendly relaxed expat community .... There are many outstanding, safe and very livable housing developments. It is certainly not a 'hardship posting. The article reeks of authorship by rent seeking relocation & expatriate consulting services looking to further gouge overseas companies...

Check out the comments on Ryan's blog

http://www.thehumanaught.com/blog/china-expat-life/wtf-suzhou-14th-worst-place-in-the-world-to-work/

I am surprised Qingdao is on the list. But Suzhou has always seemed very dirty to me, especially compared to Hangzhou.

I wouldn't call this China bashing, as cities like Xian and Hangzhou are not on the list and yet have similar sized populations. Guangzhou and Suzhou have water that is so toxic it is hazardous upon contact. The only canal water I can think of that is worse is Bangkok's which kills anyone who falls in.

Guangzhou to me seems very run down, especially compared to nearby Shenzhen.

anon: china was cleaner and more livable 20 years ago? I don't think that applies to any of the cities that made the list, with the exception of Shenzhen...1989 was plenty polluted. as to livability...what cultural and recreational activities did you have in 1989? That was even before ktv made it big!

p.s. i think the BW article is complete rubbish and agree w/ James.

The only one that surprised me is Shenzhen, though the entry for Tianjin also feels dated. Pollution is bad in all of these cities and if you're an expat, there is little to no community for you or foreign education opportunities for your kids. I think what's holding Shenzhen back is the perception that it is a "dangerous" city, though from the list that didn't really make it. Tianjin's "limited international flights" is a joke, Beijing's airport is now a little over an hour away and from there, you can go anywhere in the world.

I wonder how they chose these Chinese cities, was there a minimum number of foreign expats located in the city so that these made the list? I mean, there are large expat populations in Chongqing, Dalian, and even somewhat in Shenyang, I'd prefer Shenzhen over those cities by a longshot and the same problems that are true of the cities on the list would be true of those cities as well.

Shenzhen belongs on the list, maybe not so high as it is here, but it should definitely be there. Most visitors only see the city centre, not the crappy wasteland which is outside the checkpoint system where most Shenzhen expats work - constantly dusty from construction (I would literally sweep my floor in the morning only to come back in the evening to find a coating of dust already in place), heavily polluted, exceedingly poor transport (although this is now much better than it was in 2007 when it took a good 2-3 hours to make the 20 mile ride through the checkpoints into the city). Crime is also a big problem - Shenzhen is basically crime capital PRC. As for entertainment, even though I was making ten times my income as a university teacher/student in Nanjing, I wouldn't say I had half as much fun in Shenzhen as there was very little worth spending money on. The expat population in my neighbourhood consisted of me, an American who belonged in a lunatic asylum, and - my companions on many a night of BBQ and sing-a-long - a small and constantly shifting population of Brazilians. It was worth it for the experience of working in IP for Foxconn - in fact I have just landed a well-paid job working for an IP law firm in Japan based on this experience, but were it not for this I would not have done it, life is too short to live in such a place, most of the Chinese who live on the outskirts of Shenzhen feel the same.

Were you in China 8 years ago? All of the major cities were plenty polluted by then.

But regardless, I think the general consensus is that the list is, to put it politely, bunk.

I'm not a huge cheerleader for China, but I'm still surprised how badly it does in ALL international surveys, regardless of the topic or who is conducting the study.

The World Health Organization ranked China #144 out of #190 for health care. (OK, this is an old study. But still.)

The Mercer ranking of 100 top livable places doesn't have a single Chinese city (unless you
count Hong Kong.)

The TIME magazine ranking of most polluted cities in the world has China in the top two positions.

Reporters without Borders gave China a ranking of #168 out of #175 for press freedom. OK, the situation is bad -- but does China belong down there with war-torn countries where correspondents are murdered?

If it were one survey, I'd say it's a fluke. With so many surveys.... Well, maybe other things aren't going as well as the economy is. We get so much news about booming this and that, maybe people forget about China's vast rural poor and social issues. Maybe the worst stuff isn't being widely reported.

Or maybe all this "soft power" PR stuff China keeps talking about is not working! Because China's international image -- at least in these studies -- is looking really bad.

I used to live in Johannesburg and now live in Suzhou and I have a way better quality of life here. Jo'burg should be on the list for four major reasons: It is riddled with violent crime, its inner city is filthy, there is an HIV Aids pandemic and its taxi drivers are violent and do not obey any traffic laws.

Tianjin? have lived here 11+ yrs. I didn't think it was a 'hardship' in 1998, and it's only gotten easier since then. Whoever did this list must consider camping w/o an Airstream a horrible journey into homelessness.

Okay, two thoughts. The more popular a country/city is relative to doing business, the more votes it will naturally receive. As most English speaking electors choose to compare the worst of China against the best of their respective country, it is not at all surprising that China did so poorly, i.e. get so many (negative) votes.

Then, consider that the writer had a deadline to write an interesting article; we all read such trash because we are suckers for such mish-mush of fact and fiction. Yes, and I admit, its fun!; Look at all of the responses to this blog! I rest my case.