The China Economy For Foreign Companies
I was interviewed a couple weeks ago by a reporter who wanted to know what impact the declining economy in China was having on my law firm's clients. I told her none. I said that so far, anyway, not a single client had even mentioned China's declining economy as a factor in its decision-making. But I then said that I had also not really been asking and that about half our clients are not in manufacturing, and that virtually none of our manufacturing clients make low end products like $2 toys, socks, or costume jewelry. I also mentioned that less than ten percent of our manufacturing clients are in Guangdong Province, which seems to have been hardest hit.
Since that interview, I have conducted an extremely unscientific client survey regarding our clients' China plans. This survey was of about fifteen clients (to tell you how unscientific it was, I took no notes), eleven of which are American, one Korean, one Spanish, one Mexican, and one German. About half are in manufacturing and none make what anyone would describe as a low end good like a cheap toy or jewelry. I asked them how their China business was going, "in light of the economic downturn." I also asked them if the downturn was going to cause them to reduce or eliminate their China presence. Lastly, I asked them what the would be doing differently in China in 2009 due to the economic downturn. Their answers were all pretty much the same.
They said that China's downturn had made them look more carefully at their China expansion and hiring plans. They said they were going to be very "cautious" and "careful" in 2009 with respect to expansion and hiring. Many of them (5 or 6?) said they had an "official" hiring freeze in place for the first six months of 2009 or the entire year. Two said they were going to expand faster than anticipated in China because they saw now as the best time to get a jump on their less well-funded rivals. All of them said they had no concrete plans to get out of China, but one worried that the company's overall problems might force an ill-advised China exit. Many of them responded to my question about their leaving China by asking me "and go where?" I got the following comments (these are from the last few months, not just from these 15 or so companies):
1. This downturn is good. It is going to bring us stability. We had been losing 2-3 good employees every month and that has stopped completely.
2. I hated China's new labor law and I hated how employees were able to hold this over our heads. The power has shifted.
3. I have enjoyed my last six months in China more than any six month period in my 20 years here. We are a small fish in a big pond (they are in Shanghai) and I feel like the government actually appreciates that we are sticking it out and have not laid off anyone.
4. China is the only country in which our company is still doing well.
5. We had made some terrible deals because we had no choice. We have been able to renogoiate nearly all of them. Our costs are down, and our sales are down, but our profits have remained the same.
6. We looked at Vietnam and really liked what we saw, and we definitely plan to add that to our China operations eventually, but nobody wants to spend the money to get set up there right now. Maybe in a year or two.
7. I'm just glad we are no longer in Thailand.
8. Our R&D in China has been fantastic. We want to expand and we should be expanding, but the company has a complete freeze on anything new right now. I see this as a huge mistake and one that is going to cost us millions down the road.
9. Our sales are down 20% worldwide. Nobody wants to leave China because we all know we will make good money here soon, but the question is whether the home office will be able to subsidize us until we do.
Would love your comments. How is China's downturn affecting your business?
UPDATE: Make that sixteen. Had a long conversation with a client that focuses on auto parts sourcing in China, Vietnam and Mexico. Told me 2008 was best year ever and 2009 is going to be much better. Seems many of the automobile and auto parts companies have laid off so many people they are going even more outside their own doors for outsourcing. They are hiring outsourcing companies more and doing the outsourcing themselves even less.


Comments
Interesting feedback from your clients.
Not sure what conclusions can be drawn from such data.
For example, one sub-theme in their responses reaffirms that some people and firms view the world as half full and full or opportunity (e.g., "this slow down will force us to shed many of the bad habits we have developed and bad people we have hired") while others seem to be having a meltdown.
Business people I interact with here in the USA with no connection to China echo the same pattern. To wit, some are excited by how this will all let them shine and rise above the mediocrity out there, while others are scared stiff.
Posted by: Chris Carr | January 4, 2009 2:44 PM
"International School of Beijing spoke to For. cos. w/most students at the school. None had plans to reduce expat staffing. I should qualify that by saying the sounding out of the Foreign Cos was in early Dec. Things may have changed since then." This was left by Peter Schloss on Twitter today.
Posted by: Dan | January 4, 2009 5:02 PM
Comment 2 is very disturbing - "I hated China's new labor law and I hated how employees were able to hold this over our heads. The power has shifted."
Does the person who said this have a heart? He/she may as well have said, I expect to have rights and do well in life, but f*&k anyone else who tries to. I'll do my best to keep them down.
Posted by: Zonk | January 4, 2009 7:34 PM
The economic problems of the world have had mixed results on my web development outsourcing business here in Guangzhou.
On one hand some clients that were doing business with us are scaling back and reserving their resources as a precaution to an uncertain future. However, for every one client that scales back or goes away, we have two more that knock on our door.
Some use the downturn as a chance to stand out in a field that others are creating a void in by vacating. Others use our outsourcing service as a more economically friendly alternative to hiring in-house IT programming staff.
Personnel wise, it is still just as difficult to find talented people who have a real passion for their work.
Overall, my company is still hiring but perhaps at a slightly more cautious pace. However, we are also using this opportunity to branch out into other areas such as cell phone applications and other forms of media development.
Posted by: John Jerles | January 4, 2009 7:39 PM
"I hated China's new labor law and I hated how employees were able to hold this over our heads" ... but what shall we do with this schizophrenia, in which on one hand we criticise China for not giving more freedom to its citizens and on the other, labour rights for the chinese workers make an obstacle in our business plans.
Posted by: LOL | January 4, 2009 7:49 PM
Good post, Dan, statistically wobbly or not. I've also recently conducted a very informal poll with my adult students. Their overall sense is that they are now battening down the hatches for a hard next 6 months, but for the moment their own mid-level jobs are safe. A few workers are unfortunately still waiting for their monthly salaries. In all companies a hiring freeze is in place, which of course affects the younger recent grads (and the playful and the greedy) looking for new jobs. Sales figures and orders are down 20-30%, but they say profits aren't as badly down. Many have been renegotiating contracts, or they have had to look for more gullible suppliers. Annual bonuses are largely smaller or wait-and-sees. My soapbox message to them right now is: if you can afford to, use this slow-down time to upgrade your skills, and return to the market better equipped. I suppose you'd call that an intellectual consolidation at a time when there really isn't any choice. (Of course, it always helps to be well-heeled, well-connected and young.) Cheers.
Posted by: Rob | January 4, 2009 10:51 PM
Comment #2 is typical of expat businesspeople in China. They see their Chinese labor as coolies to be worked into an early grave, through labor, chaining them to spreadsheets or blatantly sexually harassing female employees. It is comments like #2 that are forcing the Chinese government to lower the boom on foreigner companies and individuals, regardless of how good or bad they are.
Posted by: Greg | January 4, 2009 11:20 PM
This is a good post in that its on topic (who is not worried about the economy these days?) but with that said, you really (can I re-stress the word "really" here) need to provide more details on the sort of clients and their industries. Otherwise its just a very simplistic opinion. I am sure there are some industries that will do well in this downturn, but how many? And just what sort of product/service do they provide? Is this a small slice, or is it the whole picture?
There is nothing wrong with being upbeat or bullish on China but the reality on the ground is that either people are either seriously worried or in a state of denial - which is understandable since China has only known nothing but massive growth for the past 20/30 years (which is indeed quite impressive). If I had a dime for everytime someone told me "ni fangxin, mei wen ti" I would be a very rich man. Obviously the furniture industry which I work in, has been hit pretty hard so my viewpoint will not be the rosiest but you can't hit a export driven economy this hard and not expect there to be a large ripple effect.
Then again, maybe the "there is a sucker born everyday" effect will save China. I mean come one, with a billion customers, how can you lose? Any statistics on how many new people are getting off the plane each day figuring they will sell just one widget to every person in China, in order to make their first billion....
Posted by: Roger | January 5, 2009 4:16 AM
Brilliant post, Dan, regardless of the statistical validity of your survey. I'd also just like to weigh in on the debate raging here on the impact of the new Labor Law. Whatever the intentions of the Labor Law to protect and enhance the rights of workers - which I wholeheartedly support - it backfired to some extent. Essentially a lot of local employees decided it was an opportunity to start extorting ridiculous payments from their employers. I have seen a lot of small and medium companies go through considerable pain as they went from happy workplaces to places of open conflict thanks to the Labor Law, which too many employees saw and tried to use as a loaded gun to the heads of their bosses. The balance of power has now shifted - not in the sense that it means employers can start exploiting workers; rather in the sense that the employees cannot force ridiculous concessions any more. I even know some companies that are using the economic downturn to terminate their worst trouble makers - its called targeted redundancies in the West. And if you ask me a lot of those workers are now getting their just desserts. I don't think this recession is going to be that bad for China; and the plus is a lot of people might learn to appreciate what they have.
Posted by: Labor Law Hostage | January 5, 2009 6:32 AM
@labor low hostage
It's hard not to assume you were the person who made the original comment #2.
It's a bit rich to accuse Chinese workers of extorting foreign employers. I would argue that it's foreign employers, who for too long, have been extorting cheap labor out of Chinese and people in other developing countries.
Do you honestly to God believe that all those companies who moved their manufacturing operations from the West (leaving millions with nothing but the option of a job stacking supermarket shelves) came to China merely to perform an act of charity?
I suspect your claim that workplaces were "happy" before the labor law came in is utter bunkum. They were probably artificially happy because employees weren't aware of what they should be entitled to. When they were made aware and demanded was was their right, it was still their fault. Shocking.
Thankfully, such morals (or lack of) are being brought into question as a result of the global recession.
Posted by: Zonk | January 5, 2009 10:04 PM
I want to support all the people who have taken offense at comment #2.
Just because the ultimate and unimpeded authority to hire and fire at will has been slightly compromised by the new law, foreign managers began claiming that they are now the oppressed ones. What is astonishing to me is that these managers seem to not consider the fact that when they fire someone, a person's livelihood is destroyed. But they come up with a piece of ridiculous jargon, "targeted redundancies," and demonstrate how they've helped the bottom line, just so they can rest easy at night. Bosses hate the fact that their authority to trample on people's livelihood has been only slightly decreased by this new law, and it has caused uppity workers to finally demand that to which every human should be entitled: a decent, stable, and dignified job.
Also, insinuating that workplaces were "happy" before the contract law came out is downright offensive. It's like saying that before when I beat my wife she didn't complain, then one day some nettlesome social worker comes along and tells her to get help, which ruins my marital harmony. I cannot understand the ideology which holds that workers like to cause problems just for fun. If a relationship is based on exploitation and dramatically unequal power relations, the subordinate party may not speak up. But do not misrecognize this state of affairs for "happiness."
Posted by: Todd | January 6, 2009 12:15 AM
Western companies went to China to avoid 1. horrible labor laws that forced them to pay people livable wages and obey nonsensical laws involving safety, sexual harrassment and mistreatment of workers and 2. Very expensive and time consuming environmental regs.
Posted by: Greg | January 6, 2009 9:49 AM
You do realize that the GDP per capita for the average rural dweller is something around $1000, right? That's annual incomes 1/40th that of an American.
If you demand to pay them the same wages as an American, especially when they don't have the expertise to produce as much as an American, you are no longer running a business, you are running a charity.
Posted by: Inst | January 6, 2009 4:32 PM
Thanks to Greg and some others here for setting me straight about the questionable morality and ulterior motives of Western companies, because I'd thought Western companies commonly came to China 1) to develop their presence in the China market in particular and the Asia-Pacific market in general (grow along with a growing market so to speak), 2) take advantage of lower labour costs and basic technical skills even at the expense of relatively higher materials and energy costs, and 3) strengthen their global competitiveness by relying on a network of manufacturing facilities in different countries producing products or SKU's.
Your premise is that Western companies in particular come to China to "chain" employees, "work them to an early grave", "sexually harass" them - a library of complaint - but... say, the Western companies I've been associated with scrupulously obey Chinese law because they well understand they are a very vulnerable target for local government to single out for claims or complaints, and these Western companies also obey the laws and practices of their home countries which scrupulously define office conduct and company operations which includes strict environmental laws. Are you sure you're not just colour-blind to the countless Taiwanese and local firms in China which are guilty of those very sins you uniquely ascribe to the Western foreigners? Perhaps not. Perhaps plant closings, underpaid staff, workers going unpaid and so led to riot in the streets, environmental ruin and sexual harassment of female employees are of course foreign imports, yeah?
Posted by: Scott Loar | January 6, 2009 6:33 PM
@Inst
"If you demand to pay them the same wages as an American, especially when they don't have the expertise to produce as much as an American, you are no longer running a business, you are running a charity."
Ah well, that solves it. That little word "business". Wave that one about and any sense of morals/values can be ditched without a trace of remorse. Pure evil.
No one expects people in developing countries to SUDDENLY(that's the key word) earn as much as those in developed countries, but it's deeply offensive to hear of Western companies holding back living standards by lobbying third world countries' governments to keep strict controls on labor laws.
On one hand we're attacking these governments for poor human rights' records, while on the other we're perpetuating the problem.
Inst, where are you and your ilk gonna go when every country in the world is developed? Ah, aint your problem, you aint gonna be around by then. Just grab as much as you can while you can, eh? And I bet you go to church at Christmas too!
Posted by: Zonk | January 6, 2009 6:57 PM
As you may or may not know, I'm back in the US after 8 years in China.
Through fate, I started working for an automotive supplier who ranks #1 one in their product area as far as market share among the top 5 automotive producers. They have over 8000 employees worldwide.
We operate in 15+ countries and just opened a new factory n India 2 months ago. Bad timing perhaps, but fortuitous in that it takes a lot of work, luck, and more luck to get a factory open in India.
Having said that, add this to your survey. We sold off our S. Korean businesses, with the exception of the JV in China. We are in a global hiring freeze for the foreseeable future (3Q09) worlwide and, taking extra long holidays in Europe. We are not cutting back in Asia at all.
Posted by: theAdmiral | January 6, 2009 8:10 PM
What ridiculous moralizing. China would still be a undeveloped country with hundreds of millions of more people mired in abject poverty if not for lower wages and laxer environmental standards. All nations have traveled through this stage in their history . . . the companies that are investing in China may be self-interested, but they are helping lay the groundwork of a developed nation. Worker's rights, environmental standards, infrastructure, technology etc are all improving. Get off your soapbox.
Also, FYI, this is merely anecdotal but my Chinese friends rank the companies they would like to work for by country, based on how they are treated: American and German, other European, local Chinese, Japanese / S. Korean, then Taiwanese. Apparently the other Asian nations in the region are much harsher than the Western countries in how they treat their workers.
The average American firm may be coming for the money but they do appear to treat their workers better that the average local or other-Asian company.
Posted by: Stark | January 7, 2009 7:16 PM
How do we then address the issue of a highly mobile workforce chasing higher and higher salaries after companies invest significant amounts in training and development? Everyone knows in China that if you get through the New Year holiday and not lose at least 10% of your key staff you are doing well. Usual trick is for employees to hang on until March for their bonus and then..."see ya!" Bam they're gone.
The labor law is a double edged sword for both employer and employee. I think the issue point 2 seems to be addressing is that it is not as easy for employees to take from an employer only to stick 2 fingers up at the company when they a) have increased their own value at the company expense and b) found a higher paying job after they have taken their bonus. Labor law in itself "is" key and I support the moves China has made in recent years however there was a general feeling that we were reaching a point where the employer had no protection. Just my opinion, don't slay me.
OH Yeah...Supply Chain solutions businesses in APAC have never been busier!
Posted by: Alex | January 7, 2009 10:16 PM
@Stark
It's not ridiculous moralizing, it's expecting a bit of balance. And laying the groundwork for a developed nation? Get over.
I don't label all Western companies as bad, but if you can't see the offensiveness in foreign firms turning a blind eye to people working a 12-hour days 29 days a month then you really do have a problem. The reason they do this is not to help a country develop, it's to maximise profits. People are irrelevant.
You might dismiss it as ridiculous moralizing, but you do it in the same vein as those who attacked William Wilberforce, Luther King and other human rights defenders throughout the ages. If no one pushed for change companies would be quite happy to continue as is, as long as the money is pouring in.
Posted by: Zonk | January 8, 2009 8:34 PM
Yes, companies in China try to maximize profits. China already tried the system where profits were banned and millions starved to death. Next...
Posted by: Frank Rizzo | January 9, 2009 10:43 AM
@ Stark and Scott Loar
So MNCs took China from a poor agrarian society to a severely polluted industrialized one. Now that's progress!
And look how many foreign bosses behave! Shameful is the kindest word I can think of. Ask any Asian, westerners in Asia end up the worst of both worlds after enough time, period.
And is it just coincidence that outsourcing really picked up steam in the 70s just as very strict environmental laws and enforcement were coming to bear in the West?
And it is the foreign companies that took full advantage of child labor, even against their better moral judgement. There is no way any foreign boss would let their kids toil in a factory.
@ Frank Rizzo
Banning profits had nothing to do with the GLF. And how many are dying slow, agonizing deaths due to intense labor, 12x6 in a cubicle and unprecedented pollution?
Posted by: Greg | January 9, 2009 10:47 PM
Greg;
No, I will not push and scramble for the moral high ground. My experience of China in particular, Asia in general, Western businesses and Chinese enterprises in mainland China and throughout Southeast Asia is quite different from yours but I'm willing to let you have the last word on opinions you have introduced.
I invite you to give verifiable examples of Western companies directly and severely polluting mainland China. For example, just give the names of companies operating in mainland China which do not use exhaust scrubbers or turn off those systems during operations like their Chinese counterparts, or Western companies dumping untreated chemicals and so polluting urban water sources like Lake Taihu. There are mainland Chinese NGO's addressing the pollution problem so they could provide immediate references.
I invite you to give verifiable examples of shameful moral conduct by Western bosses in mainland China. Such outrages would be very well reported in the mainland Chinese press so have at it.
I invite you to give verifiable examples of Western companies continuing to employ or buy from mainland Chinese factories that employ child labour after that fact was made known to the corporation. I don't suppose the Shanxi brick factory working those kidnapped children was owned by Westerners but, again, have at it.
I invite you to give verifiable examples of mainland Chinese workers directly employed by Western companies " dying slow, agonizing deaths due to intense labor, 12x6 in a cubicle and unprecedented pollution". Now pay attention, Greg, you are obliged to show the "unprecedented pollution" as example must be directly attributable to a Western company. I understand cigarette smoke could be a cause of "unprecedented pollution" in the office so I'll even accept examples of Western firms that, like their Chinese counterparts, accept chain-smoking at the desk as the usual office working environment. I also don't know the 12 x 6 cubicle to be an instrument of torture but... go ahead, Greg.
Verifying any of this should be an easy matter for someone like you who already knows the answers.
Posted by: Scott Loar | January 10, 2009 6:08 PM
@Greg - first off, by political persuasion I would consider myself a liberal democrat. I voted for Barak Obama. I am, however, a realist and a student of history. My defense of China's labor and environmental policies is simply that, realistically, China would never have developed without lax enviro and labor rules. It's that simple. FDI would not have appeared. Technology would not have filtered over. Hate the system, fine, but it's the system, and since no-one has managed to show another system works, I guess we're stuck with it. Now China is following that well-worn path of gradual improvement, and I applaud that. They will lose the low-end manufacturing and replace it with higher value-added industry. Britain did it. The USA did it. If it makes you feel enlightened by all means rail against those nasty foreign companies that came here for the money . . . but also realize that China wasn't stepping up without their arrival and help.
Perhaps Zonk and Greg could outline an alternative to the standard development trajectory . . . and then they could take it to Africa and earn themselves a Nobel prize.
And about foreigners in China being the - ahem - 'worst of both worlds' - in my experience it is the expats placed over in China for short 3-5 years stints that are the worst, in behavior and attitude. The long-term expats I've met who have settled here (Shanghai) for 10+ years tend to be very balanced, kind people - maybe because they don't treat their time in China as a fleeting reversion to their frat days.
Posted by: Stark | January 10, 2009 7:01 PM
Stark's got this right:
"... my Chinese friends rank the companies they would like to work for by country, based on how they are treated: American and German, other European, local Chinese, Japanese / S. Korean, then Taiwanese. Apparently the other Asian nations in the region are much harsher than the Western countries in how they treat their workers."
Even working for the Taiwanese is better than the alternative. Working in a factory is vastly better than manual labor (farm, construction or coal mine). Construction pays well, but they end up with a broken body by the age of 45. And who do you think runs those construction crews ... (hint: it ain't the foreigners).
How many of the posters to this thread are above the age of 30?
Let the Chinese speak for themselves. You can't force your own ideas on them. Doing that has never worked, whether the preaching was capitalism, Christianity, Western liberalism, or even socialism. They have always gone their own way. The more you stick to you ideology, regardless of what your ideology is, the further you get from understanding them.
农食足而知荣辱.
Posted by: robert | January 10, 2009 10:45 PM
Dan, the end of my last post should read
衣食足而知荣辱
That's what I get for reading without my bifocals.
Thanks,
Robert
Posted by: robert | January 10, 2009 10:50 PM
Stark
I've worked in the state and private sector in China for nearly four years, working for Chinese companies. I resent the idea that I'm a 3-5 year laowai behaving as if I'm reliving my "frat years." (Horrible Americanism)
My and my (Chinese) colleagues' experience of working for Chinese companies is pretty positive.
My Chinese friends' experience of working for foreign companies, however, is not so positive. I had one Chinese friend who was treated appallingly by a Dutch company in Beijing. Her fat, sex-starved boss practically harassed her and when she didn't want to play his game it was a case of right, from now on you work Saturdays as well for no extra money.
Then there's the case of all those computer factories servicing the big Western brands. They might be run by Chinese but they are being squeezed by MNCs, who turn a blind eye to unreasonable working conditions, which Stark you would not tolerate for one second. Why force others to do it?
I'll tell why these people's conditions aren't improving. It's because these companies threaten to go to Vietnam, Bangladesh or somewhere if prices aren't kept down. Do an internet search and you will find evidence of this. This price squeeze by MNCs is another reason why Chinese manufacturers/suppliers are cutting corners on pollution. Hear no evil, eh?
Someone earlier said these companies are laying the foundations for a developed country. But they're not really thinking about what kind of developed country they're helping to create. Sure the West went through this stage of history but certainly in Britain at that time freedom of speech was well established. This is an important factor that you are (conveniently) overlooking. This environment was conducive to allowing the growth of labour unions in the 1860s (about the time the UK and others were going through what China is now). The Chinese do not have the luxury of a free speech environment like the West did and this is being further hampered by the fact that Western companies have lobbied the Chinese government to ban the formation of labour unions unaffiliated to the Party. You cannot deny this.
Posted by: Zonk | January 11, 2009 6:17 PM
@Zonk . . . and yet we have these new labor laws, and they seem to be having some effect - you cannot deny this. Worker's rights, environmental laws, etc etc took decades and decades to develop in the West. China is already on an accelerated path. If the Western countries all pulled out of China because of suddenly higher costs associated with higher wages / regulations do you think China would benefit in the long run?
And claiming that Chinese are better treated in local companies . . . simply wrong, despite your anecdotal evidence. And your claim that Chinese are mistreated in Chinese run companies because of being squeezed by those nefarious multinationals - naive. Chinese have been treating other Chinese poorly thousands of years before the first Portuguese caravel showed up.
And I wasn't claiming that all foreigners who come here for short periods act like drunken frat-boys, only that in my experience the longer-term expats treat this country with more respect than those on 3 year rotations. The drunken twits carousing on Hengshan Road near my apartment are not long-term residents of Shanghai.
Posted by: Stark | January 11, 2009 8:28 PM
Good article on the exploitation of labor within the Fujian Chinese restaurant industry in the U.S.
http://www.anthronow.com/chinese1.pdf
Posted by: robert | January 11, 2009 8:41 PM
Dan
Found your post interesting considering what seems to be happening here in Australia, especially in the resources sector where most of my clients come from. With a PM that speaks Mandarin better than some of his constituents speak English, for a long time commentators were viewing China as the ‘get out of jail free’ card (or at least the ‘get out only slightly less mauled than the other guy’ card). Our commodity exports meant for years Australia’s terms of trade were at unprecedented levels. But with commodity prices sinking faster than the Titanic, and the reality of slowing growth in China dawning, businesses seem to be oscillating between extremes of doom and elation. Resource exports are shot and the mining houses are scrambling to shed some fat where they can to keep their heads above water. But the interesting thing is that the juniors in the sector are getting snapped-up by Chinese companies that have the capital and capabilities. The landscape is changing and there has been a surge of investment coming into Australia from China. At the same time, the Chinese MLR blueprint has left many Australian engineering, tech and R&D firms rubbing their hands with glee (especially after recent FTA talks – which have been going at a frenzied pace on both sides since October). In terms of legal services, many of Australia’s largest firms are expanding even more aggressively in China and are going gangbusters with work. These firms are still actively looking for people with the right skills for their Asian operations but have scaled-back recruitment at home and have increased the number of lateral moves amongst solicitors already employed. For Australia at least, China’s downturn and the economic situation generally are challenging traditionally held views and opening new doors. Is that good or bad? It’s too early to tell but things are rapidly changing form, although it’s clear that this may provide the catalyst for a new phase in the relationship between Australia and China with a particular focus on the long-view.
Posted by: Ryan G | January 12, 2009 3:51 AM
Stark, thanks for your response, but it is typical of fundamentalist industrialists. Basically what you're saying is this: if we cannot pay you the lowest possible rate for your labour we are going to leave you high and dry.
Wages don't have to SUDDENLY go up. Just get that word out of your head. But it's all or nothing with you guys, isn't it? Besides, any company that threatens to go elsewhere if wages aren't kept down doesn't really have its host country's interests at heart. If you cannot see through that, you are seriously brainwashed.
Can you tell me of a single corporation that has a comprehensive long-term plan to increase its workers' wages with a view to raising their living standards? I bet there isn't one.
Posted by: Zonk | January 12, 2009 6:06 PM
@ Scott Loar and Stark
It is the traditional strategy of expat business people in your position using such demands of "direct, verifiable evidence and naming of names".
But all you have to do is follow Beijing's crackdowns on foreign operations. NOW foreign companies are scrambling to comply, but they certainly didn't do that when they arrived in the early 80s through 2000's.
The labor and environmental laws were enacted in response to an existing problem. That is usually how legislation works, it is reactive, not proactive.
If western companies weren't part of the problem, the legislation wouldn't exist. Also, the US EPA, EU and Japanese equivalents as well as major NGOs and labor unions have been informing Beijing and other national governments in developing nations about the motives of MNCs.
I have seen first hand, at foreign employers I worked for in China, pregnant women wearing oversized clothes, claiming that they "were getting fat" when in actuality they were pregnant, an entire office staff of Chinese regularly belittled and foreign managers openly brag about their conquests at weekend golf trips while their wives were in the next room.
And more than a few of the drunks on Hengshan road are long termers.
Posted by: Greg | January 12, 2009 9:29 PM
Anybody seen "Greg?"
Posted by: Looking for Greg.............. | January 13, 2009 1:12 AM
Hi Greg,
Gosh, where to begin? I had to take several long cigarette breaks (outside the office of course and I am using the cigarette stubs for compost in my garden) and drink several "fair price for farmers" cups of coffee to calm me down before I could respond to your latest post.
OK here we go...
Asking you to "name names" is a reasonable request. I always prefer specifics as opposed to some random generalization but maybe that's just me, I can be awfully fussy about those kind of things. I see this as more of a dedication to informed detail rather than a "business strategy" for dasterdly Westerners.
As far as "foreign companies are scrambling to comply" with China's clean and green manufacturing policies goes I have to beg to differ. Your own (huge assumption here that you are not one of the drunken numpties wandering up and down Hongshan Lu) government body "Bureau of Energy of the National Development and Reform Commission, China (NDRC)" concedes that rather than scrambling to comply foreign MNC's lead the way in direct investment with regards to cleaner manufacturing initiatives. Then again maybe that is their own "business strategy," another dastardly ruse to upset foreign MNC's who, in your eyes, do nothing. Maybe I should mention the 1st US-China Green Energy Conference 2008?" A joint US - China incentive to promote clean energy? Mike Honda (US Congressman) is the CEO and the board consists of many honorable businessmen, Chinese and US. Clearly this initiative is NOT a "scramble to comply." Scrambling to comply has happened to me many times in China as the ever changing rules and regulations keep me on my toes. I much prefer a scramble to comply over a scramble to ignore......
Next re legislation; One would hope that legislation could be just a little more pro-active everywhere but I have to concede your point here, albeit not completely. Nothing uniquely Chinese about your statement.
OK, here is the funniest, you killed me on this my friend, please stop, my sides hurt!
"If western companies weren't part of the problem, the legislation wouldn't exist" Do you not see how self damming that statement is? Are you really saying that China would not enact any legislation at all and simply allow the country to go on polluting were it not for those Western companies manufacturing in China, is that what you are saying, really, are you? (That last sentence is best read in the voice of little Stewie from "Family guy").
You close your funniest paragraph by stating that large MNC's are being snitched on by their own countries. Imagine the scenario:
One global leader (GWB) to another..."Hey Mr.--, those guys at company X are really nasty, check out the **** they are dumping in the River!"
Mr.-- "Hey thanks George!, we'll close them down immediately, or at least make them scramble to comply! Thanks for the heads up."
As far as I am aware pregnant women “are” allowed to work. My wife who, by some odd coincidence, is Chinese, has a job at an American company and was pregnant last year (very spooky) worked up until she was 8 months pregnant. She then had 4 months off with full pay (excellent) whilst she recovered from the birth and got used to the fact that none of her pre-pregnancy clothes would fit her for another year! She got an extra month maternity as under the new labor law anyone aged over 30 gets 4 months off….nice!
Your penultimate point re golf and conquests etc is too derisible to comment on. Suffice to say having been on several golf weekends in China at most of the prestigious courses around I find an even mix of expat’s and Chinese “enjoying” their weekend. Nuff said!
Please let me know when you are next on Hengshan Lu with your clipboard canvassing foreigners on their drinking habits and so on. I would gladly give you some interactive feedback!
Yours sincerely, Looking for Greg.
Posted by: Looking for Greg | January 13, 2009 10:12 PM
I'm having lunch with Waldo.
Posted by: Greg | January 13, 2009 10:20 PM
China Labor Contract Law was coming into force at a right time, and properly protect employee legal rights. When you open eyes and see who are continuously creating values and what attributed to the economic meltdown, you should know: Greed and irresponsibility, like Wstreet.
Posted by: Anonymous | March 10, 2009 2:06 AM