RSS Feed Follow us on Twitter

« Land Reform. It's A Coming. Sort Of? | | Business Bankruptcy In China. The Five Fold Path. »

China Business. I FEEL "The Second Wave."

Posted by Dan on October 15, 2008 at 12:43 AM

As a lawyer, I usually deal in facts, not feelings, but I've been pontificating about a feeling for the last few weeks, based mostly on an accumulation of facts and past experiences. The feeling I am getting is that Chinese companies are getting more sophisticated/businesslike/global. They are starting to play for the long haul.

I recently had lunch with a good friend and long-time client who heads up the Seattle office of a Singapore based oil and gas company/supplier. Client was born and educated in Russia, but has lived in Seattle for around 15 years now and is very Americanized. We spent most of the lunch talking about schools for our kids, the upcoming election, and the economy. Towards the end of the lunch, my law firm partner, Charles Moure, brought over a local banker with whom he was having lunch in the same restaurant (in case there is anyone in Seattle who does not know this, but if you ever want to find either Charles or me at lunchtime, your safest bet is always Redfin restaurant.) This banker has a Master's Degree in Russian literature and he and my client immediately lapsed into Russian, leaving me trying to pick out the maybe 1500 Russian words I know. After a couple minutes, it dawned on me that during my entire lunch with my client, his "Russianness" had never even occurred to me.

Just this afternoon, I had a two and a half hour (or, in lawyer speak, 2.6 -- that's a joke!) meeting with another long-time Russian client and, once again, his "Russianness" was a complete non-factor.

Many of our Russian clients have become such experienced international players that our dealings with them are no different from our dealings with our American clients. Though my firm has a Russian born employee with a US law degree and Russian born employee with a Russian law degree, at least half our Russian clients never deal with either, simply because there is no reason nor need.

This has never been true of our Chinese clients. Every time we have represented or sought to represent a Chinese company, whether that company has a permanent presence in the United States or not, we have had to involve one of our Chinese speaking lawyers in virtually every telephone conversation and meeting. Many times it was necessary not so much for language reasons, but to have someone there to make very clear that yes, in the United States, it is always better (and in the long run much cheaper) to follow every law.

But just recently, we took on a new Chinese client that, in the slightly ungrammatical words of the old Apple ad, "thinks different." This is a very large and very successful Chinese manufacturing company that set up a sales/distributing arm in the US and for the first few years, did things the "Chinese way" here. The head people in the US were friends of friends of the company owner and the extent of their US business/legal knowledge appears to have been confined to the fact that they live here. The US arm functioned very poorly and the Chinese company eventually replaced the first wave of leadership with a second wave. This second wave attended college here in the United States and very much wants to do things correctly here, and avoid the mistakes of its predecessors. Our telephone conversations and meetings do not require attendance by our Chinese speaking lawyers and they do not differ from meetings with American clients. Just last week we added another one, with nearly the very same background.

Steve Dickinson, who heads up my firm's China practice and who is based in China, is always telling me that our best American clients in China are those who came into China 4-7 years ago, made all kinds of mistakes, yet survived. They are now so profitable they are willing to pay lawyers to avoid future mistakes because they now have so much to protect. I think more and more Chinese companies are hitting that stage in the US now.

I see similar changes/business maturation happening with Chinese businesses in China as well.

Shanghaiist recently did a post entitled, "Shanghai matchmakers promise to tell the truth":

Shanghai Daily tells us that around 30 members of the Shanghai Matchmaking Trade Association (yes, there is such an organization), have signed an agreement promising to be honest to their customers. If information provided by these agencies turn out to be false, or if their service isn't satisfying, customers will get a refund. The trade association also said they will inspect these companies once a year to make sure they live up to their standards.

This move seems much needed, in a city with over 100 matchmaking agencies. According to the article:

Complaints about companies faking identities and credentials have poured in during recent years. Many people also complained of high fees for poor services.

This evidences Chinese companies grasping the importance of reputation.

Then just this morning, I read an email summary of stories from the China Economic Review, that the following two summaries:

BYD to debut electric car in November
BYD, a Shenzhen-based company best known for producing batteries, is set to begin selling China's first mass-produced electric car in late November, the Wall Street Journal reported. The car, called the F3DM, will be priced at about US$22,000 and will be able to travel up to 110km on electricity when fully charged. The F3DM – reportedly a major reason for a US$230 million investment in the company by Warren Buffett – will come out two years ahead of the expected release dates of GM's Chevy Volt, which is similar in design, and Toyota's new hybrid-electric model. GM and Toyota have said they are taking more time to ensure the safety of the lithium-ion batteries in their cars.

IBM plans Shanghai R&D center
IBM is planning to open a research facility in Shanghai, its first new research center in a decade, the Wall Street Journal reported. The lab will focus on building new applications for the internet and small businesses. John E. Kelly III, IBM's director of research, said China's population, economic growth and large number of private enterprises present a "huge laboratory" for the company, and that its customers have recently gravitated toward China. IBM has eight R&D centers worldwide, but has not opened a new one since building two facilities in India. The Shanghai lab will be an extension of the company's lab in Beijing, which it opened in 1995. Other technology companies, including Google and Microsoft, have expanded their R&D presence in China.

The sad part of all this though is that in the last few weeks, for the first time ever, we have been receiving more inquiries from Chinese companies owed money on deals gone bad with American companies than the other way around. Far more.

Yup, "the times they are a changin...." and "I'm hooked on a feeling."

Comments

Your optimism is premature, at least until Chinese companies (you may include Korean and Taiwanese as well) understand and appreciate local expertise and employ foreign, senior executives; look how long it took the Japanese to understand and adopt this practice. On the contrary, most American corporations go into China actively looking for local executives to succeed the highest management of China operations, and that is a hard search.

2.6? You mean you didn't round up to 2.75? Impressive...

Regarding Chinese electric cars, how likely is it that the Chinese company will end up in US court if their car is "too similar" to the GM Volt? Also, Chinese companies will have a tough time dealing with the realities of product liability laws. No paying off journalists, LEOs and DAs to keep quiet with pocket change.

What is happening is that there is a generational shift in that the first group of Chinese educated overseas in the 1980's are now making it into senior management, and in middle management, you now have people educated in the West in the 1990's. A lot of them were electrical engineers from Silicon Valley who went back after the dot-com crash.

One other thing that is going to have a huge long term impact is that Wall Street's current problems are going to result in very large numbers of people back in China. The major Chinese financial companies are hovering around Wall Street and getting inundated with resumes.


Something also that is a factor is that Chinese politics moves in 10 year cycles. The Hu-Wen generation is starting to make their transition to retirement, and you gradually seeing the Xi-Li generation take over. This has a large impact because when the positions at the top change there is a conveyor belt effect that causes all of the positions below the top to start changing, and this ripples into the state owned enterprises.

Actually, if you've been following BYD, their cars look like Toyota Corolla clones.

From what I've heard, however, the technology basis of the F3DM / F6DM vehicles is about the same as that of the Chevy Volt; they use lithium ion batteries with iron phosphate seeded in (or was that used as cathodes? No idea).

"One other thing that is going to have a huge long term impact is that Wall Street's current problems are going to result in very large numbers of people back in China. The major Chinese financial companies are hovering around Wall Street and getting inundated with resumes."

Coincidentally, the FBI is probing over 30 US financial services and consulting companies. Those coming to China may be bright, but also on the lam. Do Chinese firms really want to hire gamblers and pirates?

Greg: Coincidentally, the FBI is probing over 30 US financial services and consulting companies. Those coming to China may be bright, but also on the lam. Do Chinese firms really want to hire gamblers and pirates?

The FBI is doing a probe because they need to find a human sacrifice. Securities laws are such that they will be able to find one, and putting one person in jail will be enough for politicians to get what they want.

Having a political or economic system that depends on people being saints does not work since most people aren't saints. What you really want is a system in which you can take people of ordinary moral characters and flaws, and have them do something socially productive, and for that the most part, the US economic system with its flaws does that.

"The FBI is doing a probe because they need to find a human sacrifice. Securities laws are such that they will be able to find one, and putting one person in jail will be enough for politicians to get what they want."

The FBI is doing that job that the SEC was supposed to be doing. The SEC actively monitors trading activity and is supposed to nip these actions in the bud. However, the head of the SEC turned away from what was going on. Just because the SEC ignored crimes being committed doesn't mean that they aren't crimes.

Greg: The FBI is doing that job that the SEC was supposed to be doing. The SEC actively monitors trading activity and is supposed to nip these actions in the bud.

The SEC does a pretty good job at monitoring insider trading activity, but the trouble with insider trading was that this was a big problem in the 1980's, but has nothing to do with the financial meltdown that occurred this year.

One thing about securities regulation is that it is a lot like tax inspection. There is no way that any securities regulation system will work unless there is some degree of cooperation from the people being regulated. Figuring out how to institute a system that works is tricky and for insider trading it has been successful, but that causes that's solving a problem which is different than the one that caused this mess.

For this someone needs new powers and new authority, and the problem is that the SEC was put in charge of someone that didn't want to fight for these new powers and new authority.

What the FBI is likely investigating is the charge that a high official in some company make a public statement that said that everything was fine when they knew in their heart that it wasn't, thereby committing securities fraud. This is a useful charge for finding human sacrifice, but it really doesn't help in creating a workable economic system. One problem is that "I was an idiot and not a criminal" is a valid defense to this charge. Another problem is that they, with great difficulty, might be able to charge someone with fraud, but the difficulty of convicting someone with access to lawyers means that you can't use criminal sanctions for day to day enforcement.

Personally, I think that the financial system was wildly underregulated, and needs a lot more regulation, but the question then becomes what gets regulated and how, and criminal sanctions aren't a particularly good way of regulating most financial transactions because "I was an idiot" is a defense to most crimes.

Post a comment

(If you haven't left a comment here before, you may need to be approved by the site owner before your comment will appear. Until then, it won't appear on the entry. Thanks for waiting.)


http://www.chinalawblog.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-t.cgi/2865

China Business. I FEEL "The Second Wave.":