China Law Blog

What do you expect? A Washington Post article about china. He thinks (white people)' world is the world.

Clearly there's a disconnect between what Chinese think "the world" thinks and what it -- and especially its western contingent -- actually does think. That's not something I'd contest. But the title of this article is, I believe, really misleading. I'm sure it's some editor and not Kamm himself to blame for this; "Firewall" isn't used once in Kamm's piece, you'll notice. I doubt Kamm takes "Firewall" as a metonym for the whole apparatus of information control in China. Unfortunately so few people read past a title and the first few paragraphs, and in this case they'd come away with the belief that it's Internet censorship, and particularly the blocking of sites hosted outside of China, that accounts for the disconnect so on display in the Pew data.

There's a pernicious tendency among rights organizations, the western media, and even among everyday people to overstate the role that thi blocking of select foreign-hosted websites -- sites which 99% of Internet users wouldn't even bother visiting if they weren't blocked -- has on Chinese Internet users. My main beef with this is that it distracts from the far more effective system of internal controls on the Internet implemented by operating companies at the behest of the State. Chinese Internet users, when they say "Kung-fu Net" or "GFW," tend to include both the external and internal controls, but very, very few Western writers have anything but the external controls in mind when they invoke it. (James Fallows is an exception: he really gets it).

This Great Firewall obsession demonstrates a kind of Western hubris that The Truth resides outside of China; in fact, on the inside of the "Firewall" there are plenty of voices that would be far more apt to be heard and heeded by ordinary Chinese, with points of view just as critical as those on the outside. I've met many Chinese people intensely critical of the state and the Party who bristle at the widespread assumption that living as they do in an information-controlled Internet environment, they're somehow intellectually hobbled. That kind of condescension just doesn't help.

The other thing I find objectionable about the use of Firewall in the title is that this isn't just about Chinese Internet users at all. The Pew sample wasn't just of that 19% of Chinese who use the Internet. I fear that Lokman Tsui may be right: "Great Firewall" has become a sort of "Iron Curtain 2.0".

It's plan to me that it's not just a matter of being inside China that creates this disconnect. All this spring we saw an endless parade of Chinese living in Diaspora who expressed genuine surprise and indignation at the discovery that people in countries they're living in don't feel positively about China.

Nobody should be suprised that there is a gap between how you see yourself and how other people see you. Of course you like yourself and you think in general other people like you, unless you are some sort of an insane person. So what the Chinese think highly of themselves and thought the rest of the world like them too? What's wrong with it? Don't the Americans think they are the best in the world? Even today most Americans have no idea why the rest of the world dislike them so much. Of course, it's not you, it is your government (the GOP and the Dems are all the same), stupid.

Why should the Chinese be concerned about how they are perceived overseas? After all they are not planning to take over another foreign country like some have (wink wink); after all they are not soliciting help to wage another war like some have (wink wink). The Americans might say the rest of the world doesn't like us, but has the US changed a thing? Not really. So if it doesn't bother the most hated, why should the Chinese be concerned? And give me a good reason why the Chinese should be concerned about Western job losses and China's military expansion? Do the west care about how their economic growth has impacted the developing world? The collapse of the Doha round shows the west cares about S#$%. And since no American cares about America's military expansion when the US is outspending everybody in terms of military spending/GDP, why should the Chinese be concerned?

Thanks to some of this year's events, including the riots in Tibet and the Olympics, the Chinese found out what the west thought of them. Not necessarily a bad thing if you ask me. It is only natural for those easily-manipulated and uninformed people in the west to think of China that way: After all this is what the western media have been spoon-feeding them. Human rights violations. Stealing our jobs. Killing our babies. Poisoning our pets. Oppressing everyone, including the lovely, peaceful Tibetans that everyone loves. Lacking critical thinking skills, of course the majority of the folks were brainwashed.

Once again I ask: Inferiority complex aside, why should the Chinese worry about their image when the Americans and their cronies don't?

Just finished it. Interesting.

I think one huge factor might be if you tried talking to any Chinese person born in the 80s and after. They've known nothing but economic successes, have lived in virtual luxury compared to other generations, and are products of a seriously skewed educational system.

According to the research of Kurlantzick, author of "Charm Offensive: How China's Soft Power Is Transforming the World", and also other books such as Shaumbaugh's "Power Shift", much of the world does not think negatively of China.

China has signed the ASEAN treaty of Amity and Cooperation and the Declaration of Conduct in the South China Sea.

China is working on free trade agreements with countries in Central Asia and the Asia Pacific - regional and bilateral agreements.

China is building infrastructure in Africa - roads, railways, bridges, buildings. China is also helping African countries set up special economic zones to help them develop faster.

China is improving ties with South American countries, Brazil in particular. Brazil's Vale, a mining company, has recently order $12 billion dollar's worth of gigantic ships from China to help boost and speed up trade between the two countries.

China and India have settled their border disputes. China and Russia have settled their border disputes.

China and Vietnam have normalised relations, and trade between the two countries is growing.

South Korea is moving closer towards China, geopolitically.

China and Japan have started to try to put the past behind them and build a new relationship.

It's a big world. Not everyone has the same view.

The poll is interesting, the analysis is stupid.
Is he really so naive? Even if the Chinese people are aware how China's image is not good, they are hardly concerned with China's economic growth on western jobs...

I'm not sure if you understand written Chinese, since I'm a new reader, but that article was not only uninformed about Chinese people, it was patronizing, as well as agonizing to read.

He blames the disparity between views of China by the Chinese people and Westerners as due to Chinese ignorance, brought on by the government's censorship. A quick glance and thought will prove such an idea to not only be false, but childish and nonintelligent.

Millions of Chinese are overseas. They call their family, send letters, email, discuss things etc about their lives here. Does the writer honestly believe that expatriate Chinese don't mention politics and views in the West?

Millions of Chinese argue as well on the internet. The BBC as well as CNN are openly accessible in China, along with social network sites etc. Any Chinese person interested in information from the West can access them. Chinese internet forums spew with discussions about Western news etc.

Maybe the writer should instead focus on the reasons why Chinese people have a different vieew of their country than others. Among them is a huge economic boom that transformed the lives of millions, etc, and improved the quality of life for many people. Another would be the stability that the current government has brought after a century of conflict. Maybe the fact that China has yet to interfere in affairs of sovereign nations have to do with some of the views.

Does the Washington Post simply forget about missing WMDs, the Shah of Iran, the Contras, Ricky Ross, the documents detailing CIA involvement in overturning fledgling Latin American democracies, two wars in as many years, etc. Does it merely see faults among other nations and miss all those that its own nation has brought, and feel self righteous in criticisms in other nations and patronize their citizens for not believing its own biased views?

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=261

The Pew Global Attitude Project is this wonderful treasure trove of information which is why I hate it when someone takes one number from it and generalizes to make faulty conclusions.

You see similar disconnects between the US opinions of itself and world opinions of the US. Also, if you look at the numbers you'll see that attitudes toward China vary wildly from nation to nation. There are places in the world with wildly positive views of China (Russia and Pakistan) and places in the world with wildly negative views of China (Japan and Western Europe).

The posters above raise some valid concerns. Then also!

How did the author get from "favorable" opinions about China to Chinese thinking the world "loves" China?

Love?

I mean, to bust out with the "L" word... whoa! I'd imagine most Chinese people didn't even know they were going steady with the rest of the world. If he is going to use such dense statistical jargon, he'd at least ought to explain the terminology more.

There is, of course, the problem of cherry picking through surveys. If I were interested in a little US bashing I might rebound this one:

"Ironically, the belief that the United States does not take into account the interests of other countries in formulating its foreign policy is extensive among the publics of several close U.S. allies. No fewer than 89% of the French, 83% of Canadians and 74% of the British express this opinion."

Honestly, this sort of writing has me turning less and less to traditional print media. I find much better analysis in blogs. Increasingly, I am finding more and more actual reporting in blogs too. Thats what brings me to blogs like this one, in fact.

For a long time, I was skeptical about the gloom and doom surrounding the quality of print journalism, but if even such an august paper as the Post can do no better than this, well, maybe the talk of the death of good journalism might have some merit...

*shrugs and quietly offers his condolences*

17 days until all amateur hacks go home to write about crop circles.

Kaiser,

I completely agree with you that the title is misleading and, to a certain extent, rather silly.

I ran this link because I think the disconnect is interesting, important, and potentially troublesome. I am quite certain all countries have this same disconnect (it's human nature, I think), but I think it is more so the case with China where there is a lack of free discussion, not so much due to the internet, but to nationalism, or what I think you are referring to by "internal" controls.

Pfeffer,

I agree that "nobody should be suprised that there is a gap between how you see yourself and how other people see you."

You ask "Why should the Chinese be concerned about how they are perceived overseas?" as though the only reason to be is if they were planning on taking over another country. That is a bit ridiculous.

You ask for "a good reason why the Chinese should be concerned about Western job losses and China's military expansion?" but that was not what the survey was about.

I think it's worse if a majority Chinese knew the world view them unfavorably, while they have so much optimism of their national direction. Who is going to like people pouring cold water? It would definitely convince them that foreigners aren't glad that China is rising and would only make more Chinese xenophobic and nationalistic, which means bigger problem for foreign companies and more aggressive Chinese foreign policy. Even though ignorance as general is not good, in this case, it works out for everyone.

I don't think the "chasm" is mainly resulted from the control of Chinese government, but the language. Only 0.005% Chinese can read and speak English.

Nationalistic and Racist : Whom creat problems ?

There is nothing wrong for a race whom love their country, and wish to see their country to get stronger. They just want to see their people to have a better life, it doesn't mean
they will have bad feelings for other countries
getting stronger. But for a racist, they will be really upset if their country is not doing better than others.

To me, as a Chinese, I want my people to have a peace and better life, and i want to see other developing and developed countries to have better life too. I don't really care will China catch up with the States nor who will be
the next "Superpower" ? I just hope whoever will be the "Superpower", will act to help other poor countries with a pure kind heart (not for his own benefit.)