China Law Blog

I'd love to check it out if I could access it. For some reason, it won't display...and I have a hard time imagining it being blocked in China. :/

I wouldn't characterize the blog as being "pro-China" since characterizing an opinion as "pro-China" implies that opposing opinions are "anti-China" which may not be the case at all.

In fact, I really don't judge whether a person is "pro-China" or "anti-China" by the opinions they hold. Someone might offer an extremely strong criticism of China but might be "pro-China" whereas someone might say that China doesn't need to change a thing and be quite "anti-China." It's not so much what you say, but how and why you say it.

I also suspect the reason that this particular blog hasn't gotten into flame wars is because it contains some very detailed technical information. It's very hard (but possible) to get into a screaming flame war about the details of which agency should be the lead anti-monopoly agency.

Dan,

I appreciate the reference to our blog, as well as the positive comments. We will do our best to do exactly what you described: explaining our "pro-China" (for the lack of a better word) perspective with balance, logic, and consideration. We agree that there should be a marketplace for competing voices, and our only goal is to make our voice heard.

Frankly, I think this is long over due for the "pro-China" perspective. There's a great amount of opinionated but very informed and reasonable debate in Chinese that's not accessible to the English reader. Language challenges are probably the biggest issues. As a result, you end up with what is largely a one-sided discussion in English-language "China" blogs.

As far as the "why" behind our different perspectives... we do have one thing in common: we're all ex-pats. But we differ from the numerous American/European ex-pat driven blogs on your blogroll because we're essentially *Chinese* ex-pats, living and working in the West.

And that in and of itself is one reason why our voice is new... 5, 10, or 20 years ago, the concept of a "Chinese ex-pat" was basically non-existent. The Chinese who lived in the West in past eras were either there to study on a very short-term basis, or were just on the first step towards "melting pot" integration.

Times have changed, and some of us can relate to American and Western society in a more nuanced, intimate manner while still maintaining our Chinese roots and perspectives. And recent events have convinced us that it's time to speak out.

TwoFish,

I hope we can stay out of flame wars, but I hope that we don't get embroiled in "technical" information either. I appreciate your recent comments.

@Dan

Though pro-China, it is not at all ridiculously so and that means it puts forth very well reasoned and thoughtful arguments and is duly respectful of opposing viewpoints. Pro-China, but not strident or jingoistic.

I beg to differ. That blog is no more tolerant of opposing view than the run-of-the-mill fenqing blog, it is just more eloquent. Just take a look at the following comments:

But I have a feeling Kristof is talking about something else other than these basic civil rights. When he speaks of “repression”, he’s really talking about the fact that the Tibetans’ political position is ignored. And to this, I say… so what? In France and Austria, you can be arrested and imprisoned simply for “denying” the Holocaust.

The country we wish to build is multi-ethnic and multi-cultural; the country that we wish to build will respect different political opinions on most issues; the country that we wish to build will have a civil, professional police force; the country that we wish to build will still not tolerate separatist movements or separatist activities.

Truly horrifying implications.

@Tang Buxi

5, 10, or 20 years ago, the concept of a "Chinese ex-pat" was basically non-existent. The Chinese who lived in the West in past eras were either there to study on a very short-term basis, or were just on the first step towards "melting pot" integration.

In terms of content, there is absolutely nothing new with your blog. There have been many voices in the West that have spoken in favor of the Chinese government over the years, both Chinese and Western. Many of these voices often erroneously assume that the more people learn about China, the less critical they will be of official PRC policy.

And I take exception at the description of your blog as "balanced" as long as you seem to think that Tibetan criticism of Chinese colonialism can be dismissed out of hand by referring to demographic factors. That is a truly horrible logic.

I don't agree with Aiguo that Blog 4 China is merely a run of the mill fenqing blog. The two passages referenced are examples of more extreme statements from the blog. But there are many many other entries that are reasonable and well argued. No one is perfect and I give B4C lots of credit for even attempting to bridge this East West gap. It's incredibly difficult.

Business blogging is the low-end media equivilent of cable TV. Its only booming in China because of the novelty and the vastness of the country but largely the content is rather poor and always biased in favour of the blogger and his/her business interests. That is not subjective professional reporting and never can be.

爱国就回国，

Sounds to me like you've setup a rather convenient but misplaced straw-man. I don't recall "dismissing Tibetan criticism of Chinese colonialism by using demographic factors".

I certainly do not see the horrifying implications of our attempts to create a multi-ethnic multi-cultural nation in the Western mode. We're fortunate that we have not yet reduced minorities in our country to academic oddities; we still have the opportunity to implement practical policies that preserves Tibetan interests... beyond granting licenses for slot machines and card tables.

Why don't you take your criticisms of the points made above back to B4C? I don't intend to debate this out on the CLB blog when that sort of discussion is precisely what our blog is setup for.

@Tang Buxi

I have tried to post to your blog but failed. There might be a bug in the system.

I appreciate your idea to build a multi-ethnic society, it just isn't happening now. And the credibility of your argument is not helped by your constant references to the numerical superiority of the Han Chinese and your implication that T1bet*ns should be happy that their culture has not yet been assimilated. I quote:

Just to help you with the numbers there: there are as many overseas Chinese outside of the PRC as there are T1bet*ns on this planet.

And anyone who comes up with the idea of equating advocacy of T1bet*n indepndence with Holocaust denial need to take a look in the mirror and ask who the real fascist is.

I can't access it, either. I'm inside China. Disappointed!

We've literally been up for only about two weeks, so we'll work on resolving the blocked site + system errors. If you have an error when posting, try doing a refresh on the original page.

I appreciate your idea to build a multi-ethnic society, it just isn't happening now.

You're wrong about that. And as evidence, I point to the earthquake in Sichuan over the past week. The majority of those killed in this disaster are not ethnic Han Chinese; they are of the Qiang minority. I believe in Wenchuan (and possibly Beichuan) Qiang are 85%+ of the population. (Aba is organized as an autonomous Tibetan AND Qiang prefecture.)

This isn't a theoretical divide either. Every Qiang has an identification card (just as every Han Chinese) that reminds us, every time we look, of our "legal" ethnicity. I haven't seen any racial distinction in how the Qiang are being raised... with one minor distinction you might find interesting.

In the aftermath of the devastation, Chinese families throughout China have offered to adopt the children orphaned by the earthquake. But one campaign I've seen calls on this effort to be tightly restricted; they argue that many Qiang parents have also lost their children, and that we can best preserve their culture by allowing Qiang children to be raised amongst their "own people".

Is China a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural society? My cousin chose to marry a Mongolian, and their wedding was held on the steppes of Inner Mongolia. I have friends that are Hui Muslims, and they've never had any problem finding halal (清真) restaurants in any Chinese city... there are signs on just about any Chinese block, really. There was even a halal restaurant on the campus of Beijing University. (In all the time that I've spent in the United States, I don't recall the last time I saw a restaurant advertise itself as being halal.)

Is China a multi-ethnic society? During the Lhasa riots, not only were Han Chinese targeted, but so were the Hui Muslims. Not only were Han stores attacked, a Hui mosque was burnt down.

Is China a multi-ethnic society? On websites ranging from Tianya to KDNet to Tiexue, non-Han Chinese from minority populations like the Miao, Zhuang have posted about their own experiences. If you haven't read about them... well, the Western media (and existing blog-rolls) tends to overlook things like that. Our blog wouldn't have; we'll give you a chance to hear the voices of the other 95 million non-Tibetan, non-Han voices in China as well.

China's far from perfect, few developing (or developed) nations are. Our society is occasionally racist, often politically incorrect, and still developing. But we will continue to treasure our multi-ethnic and multi-cultural country; we should continue to respect minority culture, but we will also continue to fight those supremacists who hope to carve out an ethnically, religiously-pure "homeland".

@Tang

Sure, I do know that China has many ethnicities, did you doubt that? I also know that Tibetans face job discrimination in their own country. That they cannot receive higher education in their own language. I know that the Tibetan language is not the language of government in Tibet, despite promises to the contrary by central government in the 1980s. If a Tibetan goes to court, the language of law is a foreign language. Tibet is not just another minority region, it has its own history and its institutions. In all but name, Tibet is a Han Chinese colony.

Finally, on your "balanced" blog, you argue in favor of ruthlessly suppressing any form of "separatism" in Tibet. I quote:

that is a separatist movement, and we encourage our government to eradicate that dangerous movement immediately.

"Eradicate". No one would get away with that kind of language in Europe.

Aiguojiuhuiguo,

Talking about "horrible logic", I suppose you don't really love your country, whatever it is, if you are staying in China? I see, you expats are not patriotic at all.

Your argument is flawed. If Tang's blog doesn't tolerate people who hold different (from those that are so-called "pro-China") views, then you can probably say it is no different from those Fenqing sites. But that's not the case here, is it?

By the way, what those "many voices in the west that have spoken in favor of the Chinese government over the years"? Where are they?

Aiguojiuhuiguo,

Tibetans facing job discrimination in Tibet? Like what? Is there any Chinese government policy/decree/guideline out there explicitly or implicitly saying if you are a Tibetan, you shall not be hired? Or something like "if you have two equally qualified job candidates, hire the non-Tibetan one"? Sure, there is no doubt that not being able to speak Mandarin puts a Tibetan job applicant in a disadvantageous position, so? All over China these days, if you don't speak English at all they will hire the ones who speak better English. So what? What jobs are typically found in Tibet? I was told tourism. Of course you are expected to speak Mandarin (as the majority of the tourists in Tibet are domestic Chinese tourists) and even some English. The fact that most Tibetans only speak Tibetan, not Mandarin speaks volumes.

Of course there are injustices in Tibet as well as the rest of China, but that has nothing to do with the fact that China is a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural nation, does it? Racism is still alive and well in the US, however the US is not any less multi-ethic and multi-cultural, correct?

Sure that kind of language will not bode well in Europe, but this is China, not Europe, right? Why should everybody be held against Europe's standards? Are you a language Nazi or something?

Dear Aiguo,

We wish the world was perfect and everybody can go to court in their native language. Sadly, it's not. Here in the US, native Americans cannot go to US courts and argue in their native languages; I am not aware of a single US university that teaches predominantly in native American languages; native Americans have some of the highest unemployment and poverty rates in the U.S.. Native Americans still encounter discrimination today! So is US a fascist state because of it?

Why do some people in the West single China out as if it is the pariah of the world when like the West it simply has its own skeletons in the closet. How come I didn't see worldwide condemnation of US and Australia's treatment of the native people when each country hosted the Olympics?

Have you seen the poverty in urban US slums? I did inner city volunteer work and the children threw rocks at us. Who can blame them? Needles strewn on playgrounds, abandoned houses frequented by drug addicts, that's their neighborhood. Do you know one in ten black male is in prison? In inner cities, more than 50% of black males do not even finish high school. If we transplant these figures to Tibetans, imagine the worldwide outrage. But since it's in the US, hardly any attention is paid to the plight of these minorities and no one called for the boycott of the Atlanta Olympics or labeled it the genocide Olympics.

Why is the double standard? I think for this reason, although the West's argument is not entirely without validity, it has no credibility in the Chinese people's eyes.

T1bet*ns facing job discrimination in T1b*t?

This is widely documented. Just read up.

Sure, there is no doubt that not being able to speak Mandarin puts a T1bet*n job applicant in a disadvantageous position, so?

Well, it puts T1bet*ns at a disadvantage on the job market in their own country. Always a good indicator of a colonial system.

Of course there are injustices in T1b*t as well as the rest of China, but that has nothing to do with the fact that China is a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural nation, does it?

Tibet is not just any part of China, it is a colony. All government positions of any stature are held by Han Chinese. The current party boss is a Han Chinese with no knowledge of T1bet*n. The same holds for most of his predecessors. T1b*t is even forced to be on Beijing time. T1b*t is a colony in all but name.

@Tang

Forgot to comment on this:

we should continue to respect minority culture, but we will also continue to fight those supremacists who hope to carve out an ethnically, religiously-pure "homeland".

Tibetan is not a minority culture, at least not in Tibet. And to call the nationalism of the oppressed "supremacism" is just a cheap shot.

Sure, I do know that China has many ethnicities, did you doubt that?

You said that China's attempt to build a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural society "isn't happening now". I don't know how these two thoughts can co-exist in your head.

I also know that Tibetans face job discrimination in their own country. That they cannot receive higher education in their own language. I know that the Tibetan language is not the language of government in Tibet, despite promises to the contrary by central government in the 1980s. If a Tibetan goes to court, the language of law is a foreign language.

How many of the challenges above are unique to China, and how many of the above are shared by every other multi-ethnic, multi-cultural country on this planet?

Are there many publicly funded universities in the United Kingdom that teaches exclusively in Welsh? Are there many publicly funded universities in the United States that teaches exclusively in Spanish or the Hawaiian language?

Are there differences in economic achievement and job attainment between different minorities in other multi-ethnic countries? Or is it the rule that people of all races have attained economic equality in the European nations?

As far as the language of government and courts in Tibet... I will refer you to the excellent BBC documentary, "One year in Tibet".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhW4dNISoXs

Filmed over the course of a year in Gyantse, this documentary captures a Tibetan court in session. (I believe in episode 2... don't recall.)

All 3 of the presiding judges as well as other court officials are Tibetan. All of the lawyers are Tibetan, although the plaintiff is Han Chinese... the Han consider it better to hire Tibetan lawyers, since the courts tend to be more friendly. Tibetan translators are provided for all Tibetan witnesses and participants.

Here in the US, native Americans cannot go to US courts and argue in their native languages; I am not aware of a single US university that teaches predominantly in native American languages; native Americans have some of the highest unemployment and poverty rates in the U.S.. Native Americans still encounter discrimination today! So is US a fascist state because of it?

I do not deny that the US has its own lousy record in treating its minorities. But I'm not American, and on this blog I comment on Chinese issues. Furthermore, I'm not sure how we are helping native Americans by glossing over China's grisly human right's record.

As regards your comparison, there are limits. The Tibetan language has been in use in Tibet for thousands of years, and has been a written language for 1300. Since 1951, the Chinese government has rendered this civilization irrelevant and imposed the Chinese language on its inhabitants. With all due respect, there is no exact counterpart in the US situation, I am not aware of any written culture that was abolished at the stroke of a pen, or pre-colonial schools being closed. And today, you do not face lengthy prison sentences if you promote your cultural heritage. The Tibetan case looks very similar to the way European and Japanese countries treated their colonies.

Dear Aiguo,

Why are you making the written culture/oral culture distinction? So cultures without written language do not deserve preservation?

T1bet*n culture has not been abolished by the stroke of a pen. You should give the T1bet*ns a bit more credit. I have been to an area in China inhabited by T1bet*ns. We see T1bet*n prayer pagodas with colorful prayer flags along the roads, well cared for monasteries, beautiful traditional T1bet*n houses with prayer flag hanging off of them, T1bet*ns in their traditional garments at market places.
If the sole goal of the Chinese is to destroy T1bet*n culture, shouldn't the prayer pagodas, monastaries all be smashed to pieces. If anything, it seems the T1bet*n culture is better preserved than Han Chinese culture. Cities like Shanghai are littered with Starbucks, McDonald's, KFCs, Pizza Huts!

You are right, we should not gloss over the wrongs carried out by the Chinese government. But we should criticize fairly and constructively, mindful of the West's own less than perfect record and not single China out as if it's the worst country in the world.

@Tang

How many of the challenges above are unique to China, and how many of the above are shared by every other multi-ethnic, multi-cultural country on this planet?

Chinese colonialism is not unique. The only thing that is unique about it is that you can't call it by name.

Are there many publicly funded universities in the United Kingdom that teaches exclusively in Welsh?

I don't know. But Britain is a democracy where there are venues where you can address your grievances. For decades there have been parties and movement that have been able to promote the idea of Welsh self-rule or even independence. Welsh people take active part in British politics and the country has even had Welsh prime ministers. To this day, Tibet itself has not been under any form of meaningful self-rule since 1959.

Are there differences in economic achievement and job attainment between different minorities in other multi-ethnic countries?

I say it again: T1bet*ns are not a "minority". Many of them believe that their country is occupied. And you think it should a crime to express that thought publicly, all the while you are cheering on thinly veiled Han chauvinism demonstrations. Han Chinese can flaunt their nationalism at the streets of Beijing or Sydney. But ethnic T1bet*ns can't wave the Snow Lion Flag in their own capital, regardless of the circumstances. They should be ruthlessly suppressed. That is the China that you promote.

Aiguo jiu huiguo,

We’d like to invite you to engage in related discussions over Blogging for China. Email us if you have any problems posting comments. Thanks.

To Aiguo:

You know, that the reason that why alot of school speak in Chinese is because there are only book in China, it is not the China government force the Tiberian to speak in Chinese. I am sure that you have not understanding of the situration, therefore what you are saying is nothing. Try to let go your belief of this Chinese colony idea and look at the reality of the situration than fouse on a few things that you have no understanding of.

Aiguojiuhuiguo,

"I am not aware of any written culture that was abolished at the stroke of a pen, or pre-colonial schools being closed. And today, you do not face lengthy prison sentences if you promote your cultural heritage. The T1bet*n case looks very similar to the way European and Japanese countries treated their colonies."

Are you kidding me? Once again, the fact that most T1bet*ns today only speak T1bet*n speaks volumes. Most Irish speak English, not Gaelic. English and French are widely spoken in Africa and India. Everybody in Latin America speaks either Spanish or Portugese. Very few Native Americans speak their mother tongues. If the Chinese government had been imposing "the Chinese language on its inhabitants" and rendering " this civilization irrelevant", you would have the T1bet*ns assimilated and speaking mostly Mandarin today. Obviously this is not happening.

@Wei

There are school books in other languages than Chinese - and that includes T1bet*n. However, the publication of books in minority languages is much more restricted than publication of Chinese material. You should ask your government why.

@Jane

I don't think that "written" cultures are more worth than "oral" culture; I'm only arguing that the situation in T1b*t is different from the situation of native Americans. North American native peoples were unfortunate in the sense that they spoke many different languages and were dispersed over a large continent, that made it easier for colonists to marginalize their culture. T1b*t, by contrast, did have a functioning government, educational centers and control over its territory. All of that was taken from them at gun-point, very recently.

The written T1bet*n culture has been effectively dismantled and the use of T1bet*n in government is only for purely ornamental purposes. No one has asked the Tibetans what they think of that.

Sure, you will find temples and prayer flags in T1bet*n areas, the credit for that doesn't go to the Chinese government, which sponsored the outright destruction of T1bet*n culture during the Cultural Revolution, but to the resilience of the 1ibet*ns. Despite promises made by politicians from Mao Zedong to Hu Yaobang that the Tibet should be run by T1bet*ns, TAR is today a colony in all but name.

I mourn the destruction of the Chinese cultural heritage as much as I deplore the destruction of T1bet*n culture, intentional and non-intentional. But we should remember that while the PRC government at least has some legitimacy in the eyes of most Han Chinese, most T1bet*ns do not regard the PRC as a legitimate government of T1b*t. Under such circumstances, any tampering with local culture becomes the source of conflict.

@Pffefer

It took the British several centuries to eradicate Gaelic and Wales had a Welsh speaking majority a couple of generations ago. South America, which has always been more densely populated than North America, has large minorities that still speak native languages. And most people in Africa are not native speakers of either French or English. The key to preserving a language is to make it relevant in all spheres of life, otherwise a language can be wiped out in a generation or two, as the level of education and living standards rise. If T1bet*ns had any say, the T1bet*n language would have a higher status in T1b*t than is the case today.

It is true that most T1bet*ns speak only T1bet*n, but that in itself should be a reason for the Chinese government to make T1bet*n the language of government in T1b*t. That is not the case today, despite promises to the contrary in the 1980s.

It is easy to shrug your shoulders when someone else's language is pushed out, it is much harder to swallow that when it comes to your own language. Han Chinese nationalists cannot expect the world to react to discrimination against Chinese in Southeast Asia, if they are seen as indifferent to the plight of non-Chinese peoples in China. Tolerance is a two way street.

Advances in civil rights in the West would have been impossible without the active support of members of the majority population. Many of these activists responded to criticism from abroad and they did not think they were patriotic. It would be nice if there were any Han Chinese patriots out there who were willing to take the same risks as civil rights activists took in the US in the 1960s.

What has happened in the first half of 2008 is not encouraging. If the Olympics cement the impression of Chinese nationalism as intolerant, China will lose. None of us want that to happen, right?

Pffefer,

Don't forget that the vast majority of T1bet*ns raised in exile speak and write English better than T1bet*n, a product of the exile community's school system... which mandates English-language education starting with junior high school.

@Tang

I'd love to check out your site and possibly even join in your blogging efforts from Beijing, but was repeatedly denied access, let alone posting.

I can see that I am not alone in this experience from comments posted by other people above. Hope you can have the system errors fixed asap.

@ Kai and others

Hi from inside China. Yes, it's hard to access Blog 4 China from here, one reason maybe where they are hosting it from and another maybe that they don't use codes when using sensitive words (e.g. t1b*t, flg, etc). Is anyone else in China able to get to Blog4China?

What exactly is an expat Chinese? I thought expats were temporary residents. I find it difficult to understand why a so-called Chinese expats purport to blog FOR the country they left behind for a better life. I migrated from Ireland for the same reasons but I don't feel the need to blog in support of my country of birth. Seems hypocritical to enjoy the freedoms and privileges of an affluent society and then use that freedom to criticise those who argue that Chinese and T1bet*ns deserve similar rights.

@Tang

That is a cynical comment on your part, since those schools are located in India, where exile T1bet*ns only constitute a small minority.

Michael,

There are actually quite a few Chinese expats out there, employed by both Chinese and foreign companies. I know several people who spend about 3 to 6 months working in the US each year before returning to China. Who is to say these Chinese left China for a better life? Even those immigrants who did migrate to foreign countries to seek a better life, are you saying they should cut their ties to their home country and not be expected to support their home country? That's ridiculous. Speaking of Ireland, actually a lot of Irish Americans gave plenty to support the IRA, even before it renounced terrorism.

Aiguojiuhuiguo,

The issue here is not about responding to criticism. If the criticism is fair, one should have no problem taking it. Your opinion on Xizang is pretty much reminiscent of that of the TGIE's. What is there left to say?

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=68073&sid=ce0b20590dd445725153c83b5ef21c7f

I can only apologize for the continued technical problems... it might be a problem with certain keywords.

Just the "tags" block on the page might be enough to get it blocked... since we obviously have tags for all of the sensitive topics. Anyone with technical knowledge on how to get past this? Or an alternative hosting site that's known to work? Please email webmaster@speak4china.com with any tips or advice.

About Chinese expats... Michael2, consider yourself educated, then.

Some European/American expats settle in Asia for decades at a time (especially in business centers like Hong Kong and Shanghai), raising families in the process. But they typically identify themselves only as an American or European working/studying/living in Asia.

And social trends have now changed. Many of us are and will always be Chinese who happen to work, study, and live in North America or Europe.

I cannot believe that there are people on this website (presumably most of them expats working in China) who are arguing against the idea that there might be Chinese people working overseas who similarly think of themselves as ex-patriates.

Now, it is true that many people are still leaving China as refugees (this is the only real word for them), but more and more are simply businessmen like yourselves - denying this is simple foolishness. That some of them have opinions that they would wish to blog about is also quite natural, and no-one is forcing you to read them.

casual oberver,

It's been a while since I studied conflict of law so I won't go into detail here. But as a volunteer law clerk for one of the Native American tribal supreme courts during my student days, one of the challenges the tribe faced was that US law, including bankruptcy law, preempted tribal law.

How do you know the Native Americans clearly have been better treated than the T1bet*ns? Have you done a study? Have you visited every reservation? Why are we Americans so confident in our record of treatment of minorities?

I have been to one reservation and I was shocked at its desolation and poverty. We met with tribal leaders who told us as children how they were forceably taken away from their families and put into "Boarding Schools" (really should be called cultural genocide camps) so that they would rid of their native ways and learn to live like White people. Most of the tribal members no longer speak their native language because of that.

The tribe I volunteered for does not believe in starting a casino or making huge profits. They prefer to live their quiet lives, struggling to keep their culture their way of life against the onslaught of this dog eat dog capitalist world. If you ask them whether they'd choose a share in this supposed $65 billion mineral rights pie or to gain their people, their culture and their land back, I am sure they'd choose the latter.

My pointing out the plight of minorities in America is not to excuse the Chinese government's treatment of T1bet*ns. But I just feel that it's double standard, arrogant for us to make China out to be the monster, when we really aren't that much better. We know our history, we know our context, so we know the situation is at once simple and complex. Perhaps we should extend some benefit of the doubt to the Chinese as well. Clearly the Chinese government should improve its treatment of T1bet*ns, but maybe they aren't as bad as the monstrous, nazi, fascist colonialists we make them out to be and we are not as good as we think we are.

It's about time we have a site like Blogging For China. There are many sites, both written from Western and Chinese perspectives, that reflect adequately views from both sides of the debate but all too often the bias and prejudices are too apparent. An English native speaker could naturally put his points across better in his own language than the, say, average Chinese learning English as his second language. Blogging For China suffers no such disadvantage. Its postings are balanced, intelligently and logically argued,informative, nuanced and well written - a delight to read. To a person of Chinese ancestry living in South East Asia I have waited a long time for such a site. Well done.

@Jane

Perhaps we should extend some benefit of the doubt to the Chinese as well.

I would be willing to do that, as long as I have the same freedom to gather information in T1b*t as you and I have in any Indian reservation. Until then, I will assume that the situation in T1b*t is not as bad as we think, but probably worse.

Could readers inside China please try this link and see if it works?
http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://blog.speak4china.com/

Okay, the guys over there may come across as having opinions similar to the average fenqing (although, to be fair, these views are shared by most Chinese people), but they certainly do not approach arguments in the same way. Although there may be a certain level of unwillingness to debate some questions, I would say they are at least fairly open to dialogue. This is a long way from the nationalistic rhetoric of 'race traitors' and issuing bombastic death-threats that you see on many of the nationalist websites. I welcome this site and hope to see more like it.

@FOARP

This is a long way from the nationalistic rhetoric of 'race traitors' and issuing bombastic death-threats that you see on many of the nationalist websites.

Fair enough, as if not issuing death treats is something we should be grateful of. Anyway, you don't need to read very much of that blog to realize that these bloggers have little or no sympathy for people who get into the way of Internet lynch mobs. Just look at recent posts, where you can detect a fascination and even tacit endorsement of what's going on. I quote:

The Western media gave extensive coverage to Grace Wang, and described her as the victim of “nationalists” uninterested in political debate. In reality, the Internet lynch mob is the dangerous side effect of a wild and unruly Internet community that ruthlessly enforces a basic set of morality.

"Basic set of morality"? As if it were the job of Chinese netizens to monitor the "morality" of individuals who do not conform. "Side effect"? As if we should be surprised that people get harassed once people think it is their job to monitor private individuals as if they were running for office. How can you have an open and honest debate about anything in such a climate?

@China Voices

Bravo!The link works!

@Aiguo

Your tone and your way of thinking are not without similarity to some of the fenqings you looked down upon.

This quote - "In reality, the Internet lynch mob is the dangerous side effect of a wild and unruly Internet community that ruthlessly enforces a basic set of morality" - is apprently critisizing "the Internet lynch mob" and "a wild and unruly Internet community".

But you ruthlessly chose to pick on "a basic set of morality"...

@Windswing

Me, fenqing? Whatever. My point is that even though Blog4China pretends to denounce Internet lynch mobs, if you look at the blog as a whole, it is pretty clear that they tacitly endorse these mobs anyway.

Thanks for the compliments above, and glad Windswing can now access our site.

As far as aiguo's claim that we "tacitly endorse these mobs"... well, let me know if you have a hard time finding a crow:

http://blog.foolsmountain.com/?p=181

It's a sensitive week in China, and we've tried to present the average Chinese person's view of this week's historical significance. We hope you'll take a look.