China Law Blog

agreed. irresponsible reporting is greatly facilitated by c____ship. however, i still don't feel that it's justified.

on a bit of a tangent, i saw a ny times article yesterday quoting some random Han guy in a certain high-altitude region in the not-east calling the n_t_ve people of said region "white eyed wolves". those of you out there familiar with chinese may know that the phrase (白眼狼) is a figure of speech loosely translated to "ingrates" (e.g. a wolf has no capacity to appreciate compassion). unfortunately the readers of the ny times are now given the impression that han people think the high-altitude people are savage beasts. this is especially true when placed in context of the rest of the article.

in comparison, if someone were to literally translate s.o.b. into a language where it has no parallel, the reader would be left to ponder why someone is the male offspring of a female dog. it's not only irresponsible, but asinine. of course, this is probably all moot because to 99% of the world outside of china, the debate may be summarized as "free _______, down with communism!"

This is truly BS. If there are no sound stats to turn to, what was she basing her conclusion on? Just by talking to some foreigners in China? Their impression? Total BS. And the notion that China should somehow make stats on crimes against foreigners available is just preposterous. Who do these foreigners think they are? Why should China cater to these foreigners? Does the US or any other country have stats on crimes against foreigners? It is sickening that some foreigners regard themselves as first-class citizens in China and expect the Chinese to revolve around them. Just disgusting.

What is the media supposed to do when there are no accurate statistics, Dan you ask? Report it the way it is (there have been some crimes against foreigners in China) or not report it at all (do western media not know when to simply shut up?). And Dan, even though I agree the Chinese government unwisely barred foreign reporters from entering ________, how do you know they will "report on the facts"? When it comes to _____, since when have them reported on facts??

Pffefer,

It is completely reasonable to expect a country to keep crime statistics available to the public eye. And yes, the US has such statistics, along with most modern countries. China should "cater" to such foreigners because China desires to be a modern country with the rule of law. And this isn't just for "foreigners", it is for the chinese citizens themselves, since most crimes in china happen to chinese citizens.

Why should any media, Chinese or western, ever "learn to shut up"? Media's job is to keep talking. And having a free media means having to accept both facts and distortion. When has Xinhua reported on the facts? Actually, quite often, as often as it has reported lies. But in a free society, Xinhua's voice would be out there along with every other paper. People aren't stupid, they know how to decide for themselves which media outlet to listen to.

By denying media access to the foreign press, the government is giving the impression that what the foreign press have been saying is true. Let everybody in to report, and give common citizens credit in being able to decide for themselves what viewpoint is legitimate.

I meant to say the United States and most modern countries maintain crime stats that can be broken down demographically for both criminal and victim.

If there is a rise in crime against foreigners, the cause may not be purely economic. There is a lot of anger and resentment towards foreigners for lots of reasons, some real and some conjured up by official sources to deflect blame from authorities.

Boxer Rebellion.

Thanks for linking and great point about the stats, but I'm wondering, are these stats that are kept usually? Does the US keep stats on crime against foreigners? Is it possible that crime against foreigners doesn't get reported as much here because tourists don't know how to deal with it or they got mugged and realize there's no way they will get their stuff back?

I definitely agree with what you say about openness though, its true in law firms and its true for a country.

As an aside, the USA Today picked up this story and used their own headline, "Rising crime against foreigners spooks travelers in China." I think this is sillier than any of the others because, even if the story is presenting "facts" about crime in China, nowhere in the article does it state that foreigners are getting "spooked", in fact from everyone quoted in the article, you get the exact opposite feeling.

How many of the responders actually live (LEGALLY) here in China?

If they do, than they know that you must register with the local security bureau with your passport and work permit. So, if any crimes that happen against foreigners (that are reported) are not only reported but there is a collection of similar reports from all provinces, cities and areas in China.

Stats do exist. A quick google search brought out reports from the US, Canadian and Hong Kong governments warning against "crimes against foreigners" in China (Shenzhen specifically).

This isn't about being a "first class citizen, it's about being a target--sometimes is safer to stand out and sometimes it's not. How many Taiwanese factory bosses are scared of being kidnapped (real or imaginary fears)? How many Hong Kongnese have been pickpocketed in Louhu? Enough to warrant a government warning.

I've been stolen from or robbed 6 times in 6 years in China. Verses never in 4 years in Taiwan and once in 4 years in Thailand and once in 20+ years in the US. I report the crimes and know that my "house registration" in China has a record of those reports.

Further, China should cater to foreigners, not becuae we're special but because it's good for China. Foreigners are the source of record amounts of FDI and are the owners or part owners of a majority of the factories here. China has a vested interest in how these people's lives are lived in China.

If they don't have stats it's because foreigners aren't following the rules or reporting crimes.

Chip,

I believe China does keep tally of crime stats (for example this was mentioned in the original article that sparked this discussion: "The Ministry of Public Security reports that last year it counted 289,000 robberies and 171,000 bag-snatchings overall"), but to suggest that China should make an effort to keep stats on crime against foreigners is excessive, to be polite. Why should China? Why should any country do that?

I am not asking them to shut up, but don't try to make something more than what it is. Fact: There are some crimes against foreigners in China. Fiction: China struggles with rising crime against foreigners. I know bad stuff sells, but don't fabricate.

If reports of crime against foreigners in China are becoming increasingly common this could well be because foreigners in China are becoming increasingly common.

Is crime rife in China? Well, a walk along the streets of any city in the country will show that prostitution and counterfeiting are very common, but these are so-called 'victimless' crimes. I lived outside the checkpoints around Shenzhen, an area which is supposed to be the most crime-ridden in China, and yes, I did have my wallet stolen and my place broken into during the 18 months I was there. On the other hand, my parents who live in rural Sussex in the south of England have had two-three break-ins in the past ten years and my father has been mugged. What does all this show? Absolutely nothing without proper data to measure it against.

"Further, China should cater to foreigners, not becuae we're special but because it's good for China. Foreigners are the source of record amounts of FDI and are the owners or part owners of a majority of the factories here. China has a vested interest in how these people's lives are lived in China."

I guess the above applies to pretty much any country, right, including the US. If you are for all countries doing the same, I am with you.

China caters to foreigners and that is why you are there pfeffer.

I think it would be good for China to have statistics on crimes against foreigners. Statistics is a very important part of crimefighting and if there are any trends they should be aware of them, just as they should be aware of trends in crimes against any other group (minorities, homosexuals, old people, etc.).
While this article is a bit lacking in data, it certainly does a far better job at providing context to its annecdotes than stories about crime in the US produced by US media organizations. The US media does the same thing about its own country so automatically leaping to call this China bashing is not wrong. The US media is merely misanthropic.

Me - the latest victim in Shenzhen - new cell phone pickpocketed on a metro train ride back to Hong Kong.

The chap caused a ruckus yanking at my left foot, seemingly looking for some items he's 'dropped' near my foot. Then he made off at the next station. Next thing I know, my phone was no longer in my jeans' back pocket.