China Law Blog

"First, there is a huge need in China right now for experienced, technologically advanced environmental services firms, particularly outside Shanghai."

And all of those firms know this, but they also know that it is easy to get screwed for pay since the gov't is the only entity that is supposed to be footing the bill and they fear getting bogged down in litigation/extortion for the final results, with the provincial gov't and Beijing not understanding or caring about the realities of remediation. Instead, these gov't bodies in China will spend all of their time trying to find technicalities to force the foriegn consulting companies to absorb the cost themselves for not removing every atom, molecule or organism. And if the area being cleaned is still exposed to continued pollution, the foreign consulting company will be taken to task to fix the problem at the source with with no increase in budget.
There is lots of potential for environemntal companies in China but for the most part China a represents a Venus fly trap. I make it a point to highlight the political badness of doing this kind of work in China with my company.

The makers of remediation equipment would also be pressed into technology transfers and forced to hire worthless kids of gov't officials for their China staff as part of any contract.

"The movie also does a nice job conveying how China viewed its foreigners during this time. China belongs to the Chinese. The Chinese do not really want foreigners in their country, even doctors there to save lives."

This fits in nicely with the previous thread on Chinese racism. Chinese regard all of us as dirty barbarians, which is complete racism.

The Painted Veil has already been shown twice during prime time on CCTV. Was this movie a cooperation between Warner Bros. and CCTV? Despite a thin plot, it was too good to be a telemovie, especially when the majority of a sweaty sex scene seemed to have been cut out.

nanheyangrouchuan --

It's not racism, it's the other. We are the other and it is a mistake to forget this.

Xiao Zhu --

I am not aware of any CCTV involvement in the production and I stayed until the very end. I am either getting really old or there was no real cutting for the TV version because I do not remember a terribly sweaty love scene and it is certainly not due to my not being a fan of Naomi Watts.

why you didn't say that foreign companies are enjoying more favorable corporate income tax policies than local Chinese companies? The truth is foreigners are treated much better than Chinese

Hey China Law Blog,

I really agree with your statement up above. We are the Other in China, and we have to remember its not the same as racism.

Not sure if you agree, but I think an idea like racism affects the West more because of Atlantic slavery. China has always had its only system of subjugation which has developed without much outside influence (comparatively).

-First time reading, hope to keep posting!

RB

Not racism? Perhaps not only racism, but an important part of the problem is that foreigners are judged by who they are not by what they do. That is one definition of racism, at least outside of China. Not that this is unique to China, but when there were separate laws in the US or Australia that singled people out by nationality or ethnic origin, people eventually started to call this by its right name. And eventually things started to change.

Why can't we do that in China? Why is it that we have no problem denouncing the most trivial incident in Japan as an expression of racism, while the same event passes as an expression of an unchanging culture in China? Could it be that we only discuss racism when it is a possible topic of conversation, not when it is actually a problem?

Then, of course, we have the reasonable expectation that newcomers in any country learn the language and do their best to fit it in. Yes, I have tried - but I can't change my skin color. I can live in a Chinese housing compound for a year, and most of my neighbors still stare at me as an animal. That is not just an expression of curiosity, that is an expression of an attitude that it is OK to treat strangers like non-human. But why bother getting angry? China is China. And China never changes, right?

Amban: When there were separate laws in the US or Australia that singled people out by nationality or ethnic origin, people eventually started to call this by its right name. And eventually things started to change.

There are separate laws in the United States and Australia that single people out by nationality. If you don't have US or Australian nationality you get different treatment. If you are a PRC citizen of European descent and get different legal treatment, this is a problem, but if you are not a PRC national, then any legal differences aren't particularly objectionable.

In practice, I've found that most US citizens in China get treated a lot better than local people. Local people care a lot less about the law, because in general, they are in much less of a position to use the law than outsiders.

Speaking of films, may I recommend 'The Postmodern Life of My Aunt' to you? I would love to see you do a review on it. Unfortunately the official website is in Chinese only, but the film is making its round through many film festivals worldwide and the English-subbed DVD should be coming out soon.

http://www.postmodernlifeofmyaunt.com/

There are a lot of subtle jokes on 'postmodern' life in China, and subtle touches as well. Here is a review on the word pun in the title of the film:

http://www.danwei.org/film/whats_so_postmodern_about_my_a.php

Joseph Wang:

Sure, there are certain things you can't do in any country if you are not a citizen - be it the US or China. You can't vote, get elected, there are certain jobs you can't get. I never questioned that. Yet, I cannot see what the rationale is for the blantant discrimination of foreigners in China. I can stay months in the US without being reminded that I am not a native to this country, but there are some hassles. In China, I get reminded everyday. Constantly. Incessantly. By virtue of your origin and US citizenship, it seems that you have the privilege of being able to move seamlessly between China and the US, and that's good for you. I don't have that luxury and my grievance is not even considered legitimate.

Amban: I can stay months in the US without being reminded that I am not a native to this country, but there are some hassles. In China, I get reminded everyday. Constantly. Incessantly.

Everyone sees different things. It is rather difficult for a PRC national to get into the United States legally, and if you in the US illegally, then you are very well reminded of your status constantly, If you are from another developed country like Germany or Australia, you can float through the United States without too many problems. However, if you are from Mexico or the PRC, you can't, and if you are poor and undocumented, then you get into really big problems.

Amban: By virtue of your origin and US citizenship, it seems that you have the privilege of being able to move seamlessly between China and the US, and that's good for you.

Yes, it is good, and I need to constantly remember how good it is. You may see different things, but in my experience, people with foreign passsports and skills get *way* better treatment than local people.

I'm not trying to belittle what you have seen. China is big and people see different things. However, in my experience, the discrimination runs the other way, and people with foreign passports get treated a lot better than local people, largely because people with foreign passports have the option of leaving whereas people without them, for the most part, don't.

YY --

My sense is that despite the laws, foreign companies pay at least as high a percentage in taxes as Chinese companies. Are you disputing that the laws are more strictly enforced against foreign businesses than against Chinese businesses?

Reggie B --

Thanks for checking in. I put that sentence in there because I recently did a post on racism in China and I wanted to be sure to separate out these more business related issues from that. Do come back.

Amban --

China does change. China was pretty shut off from the rest of the world for some time but that is changing and its attitudes likely will change with that. I can remember being in some smaller Korean cities 15 years ago. I would get up early searching (almost always in vain) for an English language newspaper, but mostly just for the walk. Kids on their way to school would look, point, and laugh their heads off at me. That has changed. Was that racism? I don't think it was; I think it was ignorance/fascination. Of course, it is easy for me as a White person to just brush it off, but still....

Mr. Wang --

Is getting treated "better" really better? Or is getting treated better itself a form of racism?

Check out this post: http://www.chinalawblog.com/chinalawblog/2007/02/china_where_eve.html

Why not mention the fact that in the U.S., Asian Americans with the same level of education generally have a harder time getting jobs than their Caucasian equals, and even when they do get those jobs, there pays are lower, and this is today.

Or when the jobs were competitive, the U.S. Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act?

I suppose you can argue that the laws are enforced differently and that is a difference, but is it worse to openly endorse racist laws or to enforce laws selectively? They are both pretty bad.

The fact is that the U.S. has benefited from many openly discriminatory laws to get to its wealth level today, and is so ready to judge laws of a country that is desperately trying to develop and save some of the benefits inside their country.

David --

Thanks for checking in.

"Why not mention the fact that in the U.S., Asian Americans with the same level of education generally have a harder time getting jobs than their Caucasian equals, and even when they do get those jobs, there pays are lower, and this is today." I did not mention this for the same reason I did not mention 200 million other things I could have mentioned: not enough space or time and not terribly relevant.

The Chinese Exclusion Act was a long time ago. That is another reason I did not mention it. Oh, and if you did not notice, this blog is called the China Law Blog, not the US history blog.

Racist enforcement of laws is better than racist laws, but you are right that both are bad. I do not equate China's unequal enforcement of laws with racism, however.

I do not think the US has benefitted from "openly discrimatory laws." In fact, I believe our history of discrimatory laws hurt us. I have no doubt that the US economy as a whole would be better off if we had never had racist laws and if there were no racism here today. If one believes in the benefits of free markets (and I do), one has to view racism as a ridiculous and completely unfounded inefficiency and economic drag.

I actually do not view China's unequal enforcement of laws as much of a moral issue. I see it as an economic issue and simply something foreign companies have to deal with. So to that extent, I do not even think I am judging them. At the same time, however (and though I am always preaching patience regarding China's laws), I do not think the excuse of developing can justify everything and I do not think that excuse mandates complete silence either.

A great read, very informative
Been looking for a blog like this one for a while
Keep up the good work.