All China Lawyers Think Alike
Of course, not really.
But I did like what the relatively new China Hearsay blog had to say about the ongoing "China Mindset" "debate." I urge you to check out Mr. Abrams post, entitled, "Weighing in on the Chinese Mindset Debate.� China Hearsay is written by Beijing lawyer, Stan Abrams.
Update: Add Chris Carr to the lawyer list. Mr. Carr, Associate Dean, Graduate Programs and Faculty Development and Professor of Business Law & Public Policy, at Cal Poly's Orfalea College of Business in San Luis Obispo, California, did a post, on the "Chinese Mindset" discussion for his MBA students who will be going to China. In that post, entitled, "Culture and the 'Chinese Mindset,'" Mr. Carr wisely cautions against generalizations but views the discussion as important:
Any conversation about culture often gets heated (nothing wrong with that), and these posts are no different but the comments do show how complex this issue is to look at and analyze. This information and input from these various people will help better prepare you for what you will see in China.
Mr. Carr is absolutely right. The important thing here is not that we all agree but that we think and we learn. I have probably thought more about the issues raised in the various comments and external posts on this issue (and discussed them more outside the blog) than I have on any other China issue since I started this blog.
And though I am not the gushing type (I do not recall ever gushing on here) but I cannot help but feel proud to have such great readers.
Comments (8)
Read through and enter the discussion by using the form at the endChris - November 19, 2006 7:10 PM
Thanks for the post.
Yes, the beauty of blogs is that assuming you can get sincere student buy in to participate, they can provide a wonderful mechanism for student learning. The longer I am in teaching, the more convinced I become that the traditional lecture to students in a class has its problems.
Another great thing about the use of blogs to promote student learning is that it allows them to think about the issues before they jump into a debate (i.e., more time to contemplate than in a traditional classroom lecture and setting).
It also forces students to learn to write and put themselves out there in a public forum and realize that as with managers and CEO's they have to learn to appreciate that everything they think, say, and write is on a stage to be viewed, criticized and (mis)interpreted by a variety of stakeholders, just as will be the case in the real business world when they lead companies.
Thanks to all the great readers and writers out there in blog land for being a part of helping us educators move the next generation of young people forward.
China Law Blog - November 19, 2006 8:45 PM
I do not think the traditional lecture to students has its problems, I just think it has its limitations. When I had good teachers in law school, I wanted to go to class because it helped me learn.
When I started practicing law (and this was before computers got so big and before anyone really used the term multimedia), the top trial lawyer at my firm emphasized how we needed to entertain juries, judges, and even clients. He talked about how young people are used to watching TV and they expect information to come to them in interesting and varied ways. I talked a lot about this with Steve before we went to the China forum last week and how he should do his Powerpoint presentation. We tried very hard to get away from the typical, lawyer-like, bullet point outline of everything that would be said and tried instead to get at people's emotions with pictures. We used cartoons and we used pictures and we used very few words. Steve's speech was 45 minutes and I am guessing his entire powerpoint had about 45 words.
You are right to emphasize the importance of students putting "themselves out there in a public forum" because that is real life for many in business. The schools are doing a surprisingly good job of this these days as both of my kids (ages 16 and 9, in public schools) are often required to speak before the class and to defend papers they have written. They do this so much it is hardly a big deal anymore.
I am also an unabashed fan of blog reading. I oftentimes will read a news story and then go to the blogs to get the views of those who really know the area. I just did that today on the death of Milton Friedman. I knew he was influential and respected, but I really greatly enjoyed reading what economists had to say about him.
Jonathan - November 20, 2006 2:25 AM
A couple of requests for posts:
1. Lawyers/Law firms use of blogs as advertisements in China. (some are getting clients from it as well...)
2. As the times change, more and more foreigner individual face legal issues in China, real estate, marriage but there doesn't seem to be in blog dedicated to that (I realize there's less money to be made than some 250mill investment :)but it has its niche and it should be quite interesting.)
3. As a lawyer, dealing and keeping updated with the rapid change and uncertainty of regulation and laws.
Jonathan - November 20, 2006 2:39 AM
P.S. cute Technorati search button, but you do realize it's not accessible from within china.
China Law Blog - November 20, 2006 5:45 AM
Jonathan --
Thanks for checking in and thanks for your suggestions. Here are my initial thoughts:
1. "Lawyers/Law firms use of blogs as advertisements in China. (some are getting clients from it as well...)": To a certain extent, isn't every blog of a commercial enterprise an advertisement? My view is that nobody is going to keep coming back to a blog that blatently advertises so in writing this blog I strive to avoid "advertising." But, when appropriate, I mention my firm, etc.
2. You are absolutely right that the legal issues of ex-pats should be addressed. One of the reasons we have done so little on that (though we have done some -- I remember doing a piece on child custody) here on the blog is that my firm does so little of that in prctice. Without our doing it in practice and with their being hardly anything out there on it, we either cover it here cursorily, or we spend 20+ hours researching the issue and getting it right. Neither make good sense. We have helped ex-pats with their family law and real estate issues in China, but when we have done so, the issues have been so individualized that we can hardly extrapolate them into a post. One thing we have done though and are getting asked aboout more and more are pre-nuptial agreements in China and that would probably be a good topic for a post. I will get on it. China's real estate laws are complicated and constantly changing, but you are right that it would make a good post as well.
3. I have written before on the difficulty in keeping up with the laws in China. A couple of times I have talked about how we rarely analyze proposed laws becuase we are too busy keeping up with new laws. Also, one of the reasons we work directly with Chinese law firms is to use their resources for keeping up with changes in those ares of the law in which we are not constantly involved. This is definitely an issue for all law firms doing business in China.
4. I have never been all that happy with our blog's technorati search tool, but I am not aware of anything better. Are you?
Chris - November 20, 2006 10:05 AM
For the record and for blog land I should clarify a portion of what I wrote earlier ...
No doubt we have all been exposed to some outstanding lecturers in our educational careers. Such professors often inspire us in many ways. Some of my profs in law school were absolutely captivating to listen to. I don't want to in any way diminish such talent and effort.
The problem is, though, that the research shows that student retention is actually shockingly low when information is presented to them this way. So yes, we can be inspired and even entertained by great lectures and lecturers, but, at the end of the day, the research shows that student learning and retention is not terribly good.
To that end back in September my business school brought in a wonderful teaching scholar from Penn State. He showed us some video clips of some Harvard electrical engineering students being interviewed right after their graduation ceremony. They were asked to "do" (not explain) the task of taking a battery, wire and light bulb to make the lightbulb glow. Only one student could do it. And I am sure they heard some great lectures during their studies at Harvard.
Similarly, at a university in Georgia, the one learning objective faculty in a biology department could agree upon was that each biology student, upon graduation, should be able to use a microscope. When tested, only 43 percent could do so.
Don't laugh. These are real events. Nor do I think they are outliers.
When, as an educator, we are hit broad side with such examples and data, it's pretty sobering ...
China Law Blog - November 20, 2006 6:27 PM
Chris --
That is interesting and somewhat disconcerting. Do you think it is a function of the MTV generation or have we always been like that? I can state unequivacably that every three years I get in 45 continuing education credits and I cannot remember a single thing from any one of them. Now the movie, The Departed, that I can remember every last bit. Are you sure there is no correlation between level of entertainment and retention?
Chris - November 21, 2006 9:23 AM
Correct, there is not much correlation between entertainment and retention.
I have found that people don't want to believe it, as it goes against what we have all been led to believe and think, but the research is what it is.
The research shows that for true learning and retention to take place, we need to incorporate activities for students where they "do" things (not just a few, but a LOT of them) into any lecture format (and it seems to me that posting blog comments, where students have to think about an argument, formulate it, write and defend it, determine the relevant from irrelevant, etc. is one such way to do that).
Of course the brain DOES absorb information, but the traditional lecture-audience format where folks believe that we just switch the brain on in a lecture room and then pack in knowledge that will be retained just does not happen, per the studies out there.
By the way, the teaching scholar that came to our business school from Penn State was very, very, good in my view. The title of his talk was "Teaching With Your Mouth Closed", and, true to his word, he did so with a group of us college professors. He really forced me to rethink what we do/don't do well in higher education. Of course, for the professor who really "likes" the role of being up in front of the classroom dispensing knowledge and/or entertainment they will resist and resist and resist this view of student learning and body or research!
To tie this into law and litigation, it seems to me that trial lawyers have much to learn to re-define the way they look at the teaching process that they do with judges and juries.